226 Transcript – 3SchemeQueens

Hey, guys.

Hi.

Here we are.

Two SchemeQueens.

Just two.

Yeah, just two.

Two is the loneliest number.

We do miss Kait.

But she’s in Disney, and she’s investigating all those Disney conspiracies we talked about.

I can’t tell, it’s either gonna be the most successful Disney trip of their lives, or they’re gonna hate every minute of it.

There seems to be quite a bit of anxiety right now.

Yeah, I have a feeling they’re not gonna, it’s a lot of waiting in lines, like a tremendous amount.

And there’s not, food is…

No, she already texted me that she was going to Publix to stock up on snacks.

You can bring your own food into it.

They’re really great about that.

Thank God, because you and your family are not gonna do well.

Yeah, and it’s hot.

It’s probably nice, right, like 80 degrees right now.

I feel like that’s hot, waiting in line.

But I can’t wait to hear, I hope they have great family memories.

They’re gonna love Star Wars World.

So is it time for our drink check?

Yeah, drink check.

Today, in honor of the Norwegian setting.

Norwegian.

For this week’s episode, we are having crowberry spritzers.

Ooh.

So this is pretty easy.

Very fresh.

Yeah, it’s like a little bit sweet, but not like overwhelmingly so.

Yeah.

You like it?

Yeah.

One of the first drinks Megan’s made me that I enjoyed.

Oh, I like the espresso martini you made.

Yeah.

So all this is mermaid girl and bird man went to Iceland.

Which you’re going?

In like a month.

Oh my God.

But they brought me back some crowberry liqueur.

And crowberry is a parrot.

We’re just going to ask what is a crowberry.

Yeah.

It’s a berry that also is very common in Norway.

So Elsa would drink this?

Perhaps, or at least eat some crowberries.

And so all I did was add a little to some sparkling wine.

It’s delicious.

I like, if I’m going to drink one, I like it to be bubbly.

Yeah.

I mean, usually it gives me a headache, but I can have like one of these.

This is good.

I love a chimpagna.

Yeah.

All right.

Shall we get into it?

Yeah.

I have no idea what you’re going to talk about today.

I’m really interested.

Okay.

Well, I’m going to call it right now.

No prep.

You are, I’m going to predict that you’re going to, believe it, predict a MenTB on this one.

Oh, that’s like my answer, like 90% of the time.

Yeah.

Because I’m, to be honest, I feel like I’m right.

Well, I will say also it has, whenever you say it’s a MenTB, Kate and I are like, oh my God, move on.

But when I saw Dr.

Emily, Yeah.

A lot of the theories, well, in general, she was like, why can’t a lot of these just be mental breakdowns?

And I’m like, okay.

Okay, font sucker.

Okay.

But this one is very weird.

Okay, I’m interested.

So we’re doing get a little true crimey here.

And this was a listener request.

By who?

By Kathy.

And she had messaged it to me and I’d actually seen it on Unsolved Mysteries.

Is there going to be an accent?

We even had one in a while.

Can you do a Norwegian accent?

Yeah.

I don’t think they even say that.

I don’t know what Norwegian sound like.

It sounds like Elsa.

Today, we are discussing the mysterious death of a Jane Doe known under the alias of Jennifer Fairgate.

Oh my gosh.

In June 1995, she checked into the Oslo Plaza, a five-star hotel in Norway.

She checked into the hotel using the alias, paid all cash, and was found dead in her hotel room several days after checking in with a gunshot wound to the head.

The circumstances were unusual.

Her identity remains unknown.

Authorities were unable to find any records for a person with the name Jennifer Fairgate, and there are no credible traces of her existence before she appeared at the hotel.

Her death was ruled a suicide, but the gunshot wound was found to be inconsistent with the normal pattern of a suicide.

Despite many years of investigation, Jennifer Fairgate’s identity remains unknown, and the true circumstances of her death have never been solved.

The case has become a haunting mystery with many questions but no answers.

The lack of conclusive evidence about her identity or the reason behind her death makes it one of the most enduring mysteries in Norway.

Was it really suicide as the police ruled?

Was she an undercover agent, possibly from a foreign intelligence agency whose death was meant to remain shrouded in secrecy?

Or was she involved in some sort of illegal activity, perhaps as a witness, victim, or even a criminal herself?

Oh my gosh.

I’ve got one question.

Yeah.

How long was she dead for when they found, was she rotting?

No, it was like how?

Somebody allegedly heard the gunshot and found her, entered the room like 15 minutes ago.

So that makes me lead to question, like, no, I gotta listen more, actually.

Yeah, I mean, I want to hear more.

I want to ask you what your opinion is, but really not giving you any of the creepy details.

I think I need a lot more.

I need more info.

Yeah, yeah.

So I’m like, did she shoot herself?

Or do we think somebody else shot her?

What was the angle of the bullet?

These are all the questions we’re gonna talk about today.

So I guess we’ll defer on our initial.

I need to hear more.

We’ll circle back.

Okay.

So our story takes place at Radisson Blue Plaza Hotel, known locally as the Oslo Plaza Hotel.

So this is like a premier five-star hotel.

It’s the second tallest building in Oslo.

And this is the hotel where like heads of state would stay.

Okay.

It was fancy.

Yeah, when they opened it, it was actually dedicated by a king.

So they’re like proud of this hotel.

Oh, they still have an royalty over there.

Yeah.

Wait, they have figure heads.

Did you tell me a date when did this happen?

1995.

Oh.

30 years.

Interesting.

And again, most of this information I’m going to give you is kind of pieced together based on employee reports and then data from the key card for her hotel room.

Oh, they had a key card back then?

There was technology before you were born.

Interesting.

Well, I’m thinking like a Bluetooth one, but I guess the tap one.

I don’t know what I’m thinking.

Okay.

I’m thinking like a FOB.

FOBs feel modern.

You know the little credit card looking thing.

You have to have it.

I know that now you can use your phone and the key.

But I know you have gone to a hotel and tapped the card.

No, I don’t know why I even said that.

I know, but for some reason, it feels modern to me, like an electric deadbolt.

I don’t know.

Okay.

Well, we’re going to talk more about the locks in a little bit.

So again, kind of this part is sort of per reports from the employees that were there.

Now, there were security cameras.

Okay.

And actually, as far as we know, they were working, right?

Because usually they’re not.

Yeah.

But because this was so quickly ruled a suicide, they deleted them.

No one reviewed them and that data is gone.

I know.

Of course it was.

So May 22nd, 1985, a woman speaking perfect English called and made a reservation.

Does perfect English mean like no accent or like fluent?

Correct.

I think the point is we’re going to get into how they’ve talked to other.

The women, Jennifer Fairgate had an accent.

We’ll talk about that.

Okay.

So I think it’s just notable that later on, employees report she had this accent.

But it sounds like in the initial telephone call, the person they spoke to was a female who did not have an accent.

Okay.

Or at least I guess we all have accents, right?

But they said it sounded like they spoke English.

When I think about it, it hurts my head.

Yeah.

The fact that I think I don’t have an accent.

You have a little bit of a-

No, but like American, like you know what I mean?

Yeah.

I feel like we’re the baseline.

That’s so centrist.

No.

I can’t help it.

Okay.

So again, she calls and she makes this reservation under the name Jennifer Fairgate.

Then about a week later, on Wednesday, May 31st, a woman calls the hotel back and asks to change the reservation.

So this time, the staff reports that the woman on the phone spoke German with an Eastern European accent.

The woman on the phone said that she wanted to check in that night, and she added another person to the reservation, Louis, L-O-I-S, but they all pronounce it Louis.

How do you spell Louise?

There’s an E at the end.

But this Louis was supposed to be a man, okay?

It sounds like this is a male name, and I’ll talk about the witnesses who saw a man later.

Okay, so at 10:40 p.m.

that evening, a woman claiming to be Jennifer checked into the hotel.

And so it sounds like at the Oslo airport, it’s like the final three flights of the night had just landed at the same time, so this was kind of like a chaotic vibe in the hotel check-in.

There were lots of people checking in.

So the hotel lobby is bumping, and at this point, there’s kind of a disagreement amongst the desk staff.

One reported that she checked in alone.

Another claimed that when she checked in, she had a man with her.

So if you believe the reports of the man being with her, he was described as being tall, about 6’1, with dark hair, age 40 to 45.

Do you have statistics on how many reported a man?

Well, it was one said yes and one said no, there were two staff.

Okay.

So when she checked in, she filled out this card and we have a copy, we’re going to post to Instagram.

So it’s like handwritten and it had sort of been pre-filled by the staff.

And then they’d like made little X’s where she had to fill in her information.

Right.

So a couple of interesting points about this card.

So she listed an address with Verlaine, Belgium being the town that she resided in.

And that’s a small town in Belgium with a population of less than 4,000 people.

Right.

Now documentation from the hotel at the time of her check-in lists her name as Fairgate spelled F-A-I-R-G-A-T-E.

But if you look at her signature on the card, she signed it J-Fairgate, F-E-R-G-A-T-E.

So when you’re looking at resources, you’re going to see this spelled different ways, but either way it’s pronounced Fairgate.

She listed her date of birth as August 23rd, 1973.

So that would have made her 21 years old when this happened.

A Virgo.

Or Leo.

I think that’s a Leo.

No, I think that’s a Virgo.

Oh, interesting.

But I’m at the other end.

We don’t really believe that’s her date of birth though.

I’m going to guess what she actually is.

Don’t make assessments about her personality.

I want to be a Virgo.

Everyone wants to be a Virgo.

She did not provide her passport number, which is weird.

You have to do that at a hotel?

Well, now when you travel, now especially in Europe, but in general when you travel to other countries, you have to give them your passport at check-in.

It’s how you do it now.

I didn’t know that.

At this point, they just wanted her to write her passport number down.

She just left it blank.

There’s a lot of people who are like, how did she get away with it?

But some of the sources I saw were like, it was probably just that they were so many people, they were trying to get checked in.

Was that standard in the 90s too?

All the sources I read said that it was a standard procedure that you should have to provide because people get very hung up on this.

I’m like, how was she able to check in without a passport number because that was against the standard.

But I do know now, 30 years later, when I check into hotels in other countries, they always ask for your passport.

She paid cash and did not provide a credit card for incidentals.

At this time, she lists her checkout as June 2nd.

We’re checking in on May 31st, going to check out on June 2nd.

She’s assigned to room 2805.

At this point, we can track some of her movements, like I said, with that keycard data.

The keycard data shows every time the card is tapped to enter the room, but it can’t track when you leave the room.

We don’t know the timing.

Correct.

It’s not tracking every time the door opens, it’s only tracking when you are-

The keycard.

The keycard that you’re using to enter.

At 2244, after check-in, she enters her room with the keycard.

Then there’s another keycard access after midnight at 1221 AM.

Again, we go back to these same two employees and kind of disagreeing perspectives.

The employees report, they saw her in that time, what was she doing in this 30-minute period, that they saw her accessing the currency exchange in the lobby.

But nobody knows exactly what currency she was exchanging.

One of the staff members thought it was US dollars to to Krone, which is the Norwegian money.

But we can’t be sure.

One of the desk attendants said that she was with a man at the currency exchange, but the other says, I didn’t see her with a man.

And they do report that they saw her waiting for an elevator to go back upstairs.

And at that point, they agree she was alone.

Regardless of whether or not you believe there was a man with her, we have no more reported sightings of her being seen with another person after this check-in day.

Okay.

So then the next key card access is the next, she gets her money, she goes up after midnight.

And then about eight hours later, 8:34 AM on Thursday, the key card is used again.

So we can theorize that maybe she left to go get breakfast or coffee.

Nobody saw her in like the hotel breakfast area.

Maybe she went to Starb’s.

I don’t know.

But I mean, she’s the one using the key.

Bingo.

There you go.

You sound a little conspirator.

She had, again, as I mentioned, she’d initially booked two nights, but she wanted to extend her stay.

So she went down and got two new key cards from the lobby.

And then she re-enters her room again at 8:50 AM.

And then at 12.44, we have three separate entries, and we can attribute these to a cleaning lady.

There were two cleaning ladies because one was training the other.

And so they said they entered the room and there was nobody in the room.

And now, you know how European hotels, it’s usually like two twin beds that are like squeezed together?

Yeah.

And each of these twin beds would have like a twin duvet.

So they said it looked like only one side was slept in, only like one side was disrupted, one had pillow adhesion, and the duvet on the unslept-in one was like nicely folded and moved to the side.

So we’re assuming only one person slept in this room.

Yeah, the room is not accessed again until 8:50 a.m.

on Friday.

So that means that when the cleaning ladies left, say at 1 p.m., no one else comes into the room until almost 9 a.m.

the next day.

So what was she out there doing?

That’s suspicious.

So when she came in at 8.50 on Friday, again, we have this card key information.

She also was seen by an employee, like in the hallway, and they exchanged pleasantries.

She said, like, I said hi to her in English, and she responded.

In the meantime now, she’s extended her stay, right?

So someone in reception has figured out that she paid cash and they didn’t put a credit card on file for incidentals.

So they want her to come down to give them a credit card number.

Right.

So they send a message to her TV, which this kind of feels…

That seems weird.

Well, I mean, I think people would do it now.

I would feel like somebody’s watching me if my TV sent me a message.

I think that now, like you go into a hotel, now I would be like, welcome, you know, yeah, my hotel did.

Yeah.

But I kind of feel like in 1995, that seems modern.

How are they doing that?

So apparently, they sent a message to her TV, just saying, like, can you come down to the front desk?

So when she enters her room at 850 a.m., they said, within minutes, there was like an almost immediate acknowledgement of that waiting message on her TV.

They can tell?

Like she had entered to clear the message.

Okay.

The same witness that she had exchanged pleasantries with in the hotel when she entered the room, then observed her opening her door and placing a do not disturb sign on the outside of the door.

Okay.

She did not go to registration.

Oh my God.

The card was used again at 1103 a.m.

and that was the last time it was ever used, and we have no information on her movements at this time.

Again, we know that she never stopped by registration.

Just after 8 p.m., she ordered room service.

She ordered a bratwurst and potato salad.

You know what?

Good for her.

Is that what she wants?

I mean, I don’t know.

European.

I mean, I do like that.

You like a bratwurst?

Come with horseradish?

Probably.

I love horseradish.

And mustard?

I’d eat that.

So the food was delivered and was brought into the room.

And people.

So the staff member who delivered this about 20 minutes later, she’s like, this was memorable because she gave me a pretty good tip.

You know, they don’t tip a lot in Europe.

She had a pretty substantial tip.

So I think she might be the one.

A lot of people thought that she might have been like a flight attendant because she had a roller bag, like a small bag, which was on wheels, which was kind of now we all have that.

But that was like modern at the time.

And she was like really well dressed.

And so everyone just assumed she was like a flight attendant flying through.

But this would fly to stay at this hotel.

It sounds fancy.

It said they did, except but like she would have been paying cash.

She would have been paying with like her on work.

Yes.

They probably would have set it up for.

So anyway, the person who delivered the food, who got the fat tip, said that she remembers the room being immaculate.

The bed was meticulously made, giving the impression it had not been slept on.

And no cleaning lady has been in.

No, not since that day before.

So it makes you, the point is like if the cleaning lady left at 1 p.m., it’s immaculate now, and it’s like the next night, and we know she stayed out for 20 hours.

I’m just saying, if I’m out for 20 hours working or whatever, I like to take a little nap.

I’d be snoozing.

I’d be 100 percent.

Even if she didn’t spend the night, it’s just kind of odd.

Where was she?

What was she doing?

And how is everything just undisturbed?

So that evening, she sent another request to come down to the front desk, which she acknowledged immediately, but again, does not come down.

So again, I’m like, it’s so weird.

She didn’t have a card on file, but she was able to like order room service.

That doesn’t.

Yeah.

Or do they just allow the charges to add up?

Yeah, they probably just assumed.

I want to get her on a freeze.

Yeah, I feel like they’d be like, oh, well, we need your card if you’re going to order.

Yeah.

But maybe they’re just assuming these people usually have a card on file.

I don’t know.

The following day at 1936 PM, again, third request sent to the TV.

She again acknowledges, but doesn’t come down.

The staff member goes up to check on her, but they see the do not disturb sign, and they had been seeing this is why they hadn’t bothered her previously.

But it sounds like now they’re like, it’s been a few days, what if something’s going on in there?

They went down and they got security and they said, security, can you go check on us?

Like a wellness check.

Yeah.

Security is like some young kid who worked every third weekend, who’s a student.

And so he goes and knocks on the door at 7:50 p.m.

He claims that he knocked on the door and then he immediately heard a gunshot.

So he goes downstairs to get his boss because he’s afraid that if he radios, it’s gonna cause panic.

He doesn’t want everyone in the hotel to hear this.

So he leaves the scene of the crime for 14 minutes.

So we have 14 minutes where there’s no camera, we have no idea what happened.

So if someone was in the room, potentially they could have left at that point.

Yeah.

So then at again, 2004, he brings his boss up, his boss enters the room.

We see that again with the key card.

And he says that when he went in, he had to double unlock the door.

We’re gonna get to that support.

He says he found all the lights off and the TV on.

A woman was lying on the end of the bed.

So like knees bent over the edge of the bed.

Like flopped.

Yeah, she’s holding a gun in an odd position.

So she was holding it like, we’ll get more in depth, but like this, like thumb up and down with the gun facing up.

That is…

Yeah, it’s a weird way to do it.

But again, we’ll post some pictures and we’ll talk about that again shortly.

And the room smelled like gunpowder.

So he’s like, clearly this lady’s dead.

I didn’t even approach the body.

And it says he calls 911.

You know what?

What do you think the 911 response time is in Oslo?

Well, based on what we know about France’s response time to Princess Diana, probably pretty long.

I would guess 30 minutes.

30 minutes.

They did a nine hour investigation.

The police.

Nine hours?

Yeah, nine hours.

Within nine hours, they said, the hotel, you may have this room back.

You may clean up.

Oh, I didn’t even think about them flipping the room.

Yeah, what if you’re the first person who sleeps in there after that?

I’m gonna think about that in every hotel room.

How many people have died?

Well, you know, hotels are very common places for people to go off themselves.

Specifically Airbnb.

I know someone who was staying in Airbnb for a travel assignment and found a body.

And Airbnb gave him a whole credit.

Found a body?

But apparently, it’s really common because people don’t want their family members to find them that way, right?

So they’ll go check in somewhere.

Yeah, so think about that next time you’re in a hotel.

So they did this nine hour investigation.

Police claimed there was a 99.9% chance that this was suicide due to gunshot wound to the head.

99.9.

They held the body for about 13 months, but nobody ever claimed it.

So it ended up getting buried in an unmarked grave.

Yeah, but buried means we can get DNA.

Ooh, bingo.

Remember, we’re going to make you a true crime girl yet.

I know the deets.

But while we can get DNA, all of the other evidence was destroyed because it was suicide and nobody claimed it.

So we have really two mysteries here.

Yeah, this is where I’m like, why does this woman matter, though?

Because we haven’t even gotten to the weirdest shit.

Why it matters is because like, what?

I mean, like, what we should…

RIP, but like…

Okay, well, it’ll get weirder.

So there are two mysteries here.

One is like, who was this woman?

Okay.

And the second one is how did she die?

So weird things.

She had zero identification in her room.

There were no keys, no credit cards, no passports.

She actually had no toiletries.

Like we know she had…

Not even a credit card or anything?

Nothing.

And we know she had toiletries and makeup, like at one point, but when she died…

They’re gone.

Was the roller…

And she was like made up.

The roller case there?

The roller case was not there.

She had provided…

When I told you that she gave her address in Belgium and a phone number, she provided a phone number with the area code to Belgium, but the number was fake.

The street that she listed as her address, I saw somewhere that it was real, that the street was real, but the number didn’t exist.

But then I read somewhere else that it was a similar name to a different street.

So it was just people were curious, was she familiar with this town in some way, if she listed an appropriate street?

But again, conflicting evidence on that.

And I told you, this town had less than 4,000 people, so they took her picture to this town and was like, does anyone recognize her?

No one knew her.

Her fingerprints were run through Interpol, nothing matched.

So I mentioned that the head of security said the door was double locked.

And so that pretty much just means, I thought deadbolt, but it’s not a deadbolt.

It just means that you had to do a double tap and pull up the thing to make it work.

So locks the handle in the deadbolt?

Yeah.

Now, you could…

So people thought this was weird because they thought you could only double lock it from the inside.

That is not true.

You can double lock it from the outside, but it requires use of a key card.

You have to tap the key card and do it.

And again, we don’t have any data that the key card was used.

So it just kind of goes…

This fact keeps coming up because people are trying to figure out like, was there somebody in the room?

Yeah.

The gun was an illegal weapon and the serial number was burnt.

You know, usually people like saw or what does it say it?

Sand off the serial number?

Yeah, yeah.

This was burned off, which I guess is like a better way to do it, that’s like intelligence agencies do it.

This is a little crazy.

They did find a couple numbers.

There were the tracks that came from Germany, but they could never identify like this weapon.

Okay, she was dressed in her heels.

She had a nine millimeter in her hand with 25 rounds in her briefcase, nothing else.

I told you about this weird grip on the gun.

And they said when she was found, they removed the gun from her hand and they heard a click, like it hadn’t finished the shot.

And this is weird because they’re like, for her to have shot this gun, let alone the way they did, it would have had crazy recoil.

Like she shouldn’t have just relaxed.

Her hand would be resting on her chest.

But for sure, her thumb would have come off of the trigger, whereas the way it was found, it was like she pushed the trigger and never released.

So anyway, this kind of gives a vibe, like was it staged?

She had no blood or gunshot residue on her hand.

That’s weird if she shot herself so closely.

The gun was fired not once, but twice.

So they discovered when they, again, the security only heard one gunshot.

But when they investigated, they found that there was a gun, the gun had been fired through a pillow and the mattress and the bullet had lodged in the floor.

And then someone had flipped this pillow over.

So you didn’t see the scorch mark unless you looked for it.

So police theorized this could have been a practice run to assess the silencing of the pillow.

But also, just like this extra shot makes no sense, but other people would allege that maybe that was the gunshot that the security guard heard.

And she was already dead.

Yeah.

Like maybe-

Was there a window in this hotel room?

Sure, but she was on the 20th floor.

Oh, I forgot about that, okay.

But then also, I think if you, like that theory then would be like if someone shot her and then security’s like, security’s here, security’s here, and they want to like scare, they want to scare him off, that maybe they just like fire an extra shot.

That’s the shot he heard, but this person was already dead.

Yeah, yeah.

I’m falling.

This, I don’t know how to, I don’t know.

But also the fact that she’s now shot, the gun was shot two times.

So it’s like weird that there was no gunshot residue, but then to say she shot the gun two times, there’s no gunshot residue.

It’s contradicting each other.

Like, what does it mean?

Contradicting.

Yeah, right, right, right, right.

There were no fingerprints on the gun, on the case scenes or on the bullets in the gun.

So, like, I think Unsolved Mysteries was like it’s one thing to wipe the gun.

But like, people always forget to wipe the bullets.

So those 25 bullets she had in her suitcase had no prints on them.

And they would have had to have been like manually loaded.

Yes.

And they also thought it was weird because there was men’s cologne with her fingerprints on it.

But like, I use men’s deodorant because I just think it smells better.

Yeah, I do.

I do, too, actually.

So I’m not sure that that it doesn’t make me anything.

Oh, like they’re trying to say like men’s deodorant thus.

Like maybe there was a man there, but maybe it was just hers.

It had her fingerprints on it.

They said the only thing they found in the room that had someone else’s fingerprints was the USA Today, the newspaper that they delivered.

But like the delivery man’s fingerprints.

Perhaps.

They were never able to make a match on those prints.

Okay, this is weird.

Her clothes, no labels in them.

All of the labels had been removed.

I mean, I removed my label.

Because it’s like a texture.

Okay, well, these were all meticulously removed.

And you know who else does that?

Spies.

Oh, my God.

Also, this is weird, okay?

Do you ever go on a trip and just like pack no bottoms?

Like tops only?

Yeah, like nothing below the waist.

No.

Yeah, you can’t defend that.

That’s weird.

So when she was found dead, she was wearing stockings and shoes.

And I guess she had these like undershorts, like shorts that you would wear.

Yeah, like Spanx or whatever.

I get it.

They seemed a little looser than that.

But, you know, yeah, like sometimes, you know, we like to wear some like biker shorts and dresses or whatever.

But these are like not shorts you would usually wear out in public.

No pants, no skirt, no underwear or bottoms of any other type in the hotel room.

Was there bras?

Yes.

I’ll tell you what there was.

That’s really weird.

Four jackets, four bras, two pair of stockings, sweater, blouse, a pair of undershorts and a single pair of shoes.

I said no toiletries.

But everyone who saw her said that she was like meticulously put together.

She was wearing makeup.

So did they like, I don’t know, did they see her wearing the same thing?

Like, well, they all saw her wearing this theory that she could have been like a high class sex worker.

And some people said she was kind of dressed like that.

Some said she was dressed like a normal, like a European of the era, like she had like a black trench type jacket on, heels.

When she was there, she had ordered two pay-per-view movies, but we don’t know what they were or what language they were in.

She made two phone calls to a Belgium area code, but both of the numbers she called didn’t exist.

And everyone’s like, oh, they were trying to like, she’s trying to throw people off or whatever, these numbers aren’t real.

I’m like, or were they real?

Were they like burner phones?

That have a lot of very close?

I don’t know, sounds like some spy shit to me.

It’s sounding very weird.

Our listeners can tell us what they think about this, okay?

She had consumed from the mini bar, again, mini bar with no credit card on file, a Diet Coke and a Coke.

So people are reporting like, you are a Diet Coke drinker?

Or you’re a Coke drinker?

And I would agree with that.

I mean, I drink both, but not at the same time.

Like I wouldn’t have ordered both of them.

So they want to know, people are like, so does that indicate, yes, someone else is in the room with her?

Like maybe the man was a Coke drinker, she was a Diet Coke drinker.

Also, if we get like poison theories, this was all part of like the method of poisoning her.

But I don’t know, I’m not a Coke drinker.

Again, yeah, I do think there’s people who are Coke drinkers or Diet Coke drinkers, but that’s not firmly enough to like make it fit in.

Like this way the whole thing, yeah.

So she’d ordered that bratwurst like the night before.

So when she died, she had two bites of undigested bratwurst in her stomach, like that she had eaten.

Only two bites.

Just before she died.

So then people were like, so did she die 20 hours ago?

But it sounds like, as I dug deeper into this, a lot of people are like, she probably had a couple of bites of leftover.

Maybe she took a bite and was like, not feeling that.

But it doesn’t mean that she died after that meal the day before, or it was only two bites.

It wasn’t a meal.

Yeah, no.

Also, can you imagine having a bratwurst sitting out in your living room?

And then taking a nibble.

And then just walking by being like, that?

Well, hold on, the Germans would like people who like bratwurst, maybe.

Would you eat any food that you like that’s been sitting out for 20?

Would you not buy the pizza for 20 hours?

No.

I hope she didn’t do that.

She also had this diving watch on.

So it was like she had this ring in this diving watch she was found with.

Many report that this brand of watch was commonly used among intelligence special ops groups.

They were able to trace the serial number back to a retailer in Germany, but they couldn’t ever locate the buyer.

So when I watched Unsolved Mysteries, it had been like 25 years after.

And so one of the investigators went back and exhumed the body for DNA like you suggested.

And from that, they were able to determine that she was European.

And as I mentioned, the one desk worker thought she spoke German with an Eastern European accent.

She claimed to be 21.

But when they again looked at the body, they asked her to be more like 25 to 35 at the time of death.

And then they looked at her dental records.

It sounds like she was very well preserved when they pulled her out.

And her teeth, she had a lot of metal work.

But they carbon date from your teeth.

And that’s how they figured out.

Oh, and she was probably likely born between 1970 and 1972.

So that would make her like 23 to 25 when this happened.

OK.

So here are the theories.

So was she an escort?

They use false identities to protect their privacy.

This was a luxury hotel.

So again, if she was an escort, she was like a high end escort.

Did she have a dispute with her handler or maybe a client?

Like, was that her handler that was down in the lobby with her?

Maybe.

You know, was that a client was Louis?

Again, I said, OK, she was very, everyone who saw her said she was very attractive and well dressed and that she could really fit into this like high class environment.

Because again, this is a very fancy hotel where all these big wigs are staying.

Right.

Many Redditors commented that she was dressed like a high end sex worker, like I said.

So if you believe the theory, then maybe she witnessed something like illegal activities, like if she had a potentially powerful client, did she witness, observe them doing illegal things?

Was like there’s some sex trafficking involved?

Was this like a botched transaction?

So that’s one of the theories.

Okay.

I don’t know how I feel about them yet.

Like it just doesn’t, none of it makes sense.

Yeah.

I don’t know if I feel like somebody was with her or not.

I feel like there was probably someone with her.

I don’t know either, but like why would they call specifically and say, I’m adding Lewis to the reservation?

It’s too weird.

Yeah.

Okay.

So then the other like kind of the very popular theory and what makes this a conspiracy.

Okay.

Is that she’s a spy?

Was she an intelligence officer?

So this was post-Cold War.

We do know that there were KGB officers in Norway during the Cold War.

In fact, they had a significant presence in many European countries, particularly in Scandinavia.

So Norway was kind of strategically important to the USSR, Russia, because it was its proximity to the Arctic and its kind of shared border.

It was also a member of NATO.

There were also several known instances of suspected Soviet agents trying to infiltrate Norway during the 50s and 60s.

There was like the Norwegian diplomat who was arrested in the 80s.

Like explaining how she would be there.

So like, it’s not like this would be the first spy.

And so then people think she could have been a former East German intelligence officer working on behalf of the Soviets based on reports of her accent, the forensic analysis of her DNA, the clothing style she was wearing, her watch that was traced back to Germany, and then the gun also, I told you they were able to find a couple of serial numbers and say this came from Germany, but that was like as far as they could figure it out.

So she’s got, she has a lot of ties to Germany.

If you were to believe she’s an intelligence officer, it would make sense why nobody ever recognized or claimed the body.

The Redditors say it’s pretty common practice.

It would be common practice.

Like let them die.

No, like they died and you go and you’re like, your daughter died a hero.

Here’s a check.

And then, you know.

And just smooth it over.

Yeah.

This is making more sense than all of them.

And then the whole thing about the double locked door, how I was like, you can double lock from the outside, but you’d have to have a key, but why did the key card register?

And some people are like, you know, intelligence officers would probably be able to get into any hotel room they wanted.

True.

Right, they probably have some kind of technology that would allow them to go around.

That could untrack that, yeah.

Yeah, and then we know intelligence services, and we’ve talked about several of them here, have carried out targeted killings and assassinations with the goal of making it look like suicide.

Again, intelligence officers are trained to remove identifying information, including clothing labels.

The hotel was a location, again, this hotel is kind of an important hotel, it’s huge in Oslo, and it’s where they had the Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talk meeting in 1993 that they called the Oslo Accord.

This happened in this hotel.

So it’s like a big place to be in?

Yeah, like politics and all that.

For things to spy on.

So, and we know that intelligence agencies had used this hotel in the past.

I’m going to tell you a really quick, I guess, kind of story that would also corroborate this.

Honestly, this one might need in a year or two, I have to circle back and cover this in a deeper dive.

It’s a very similar story though, so we’re not going to do it for a while, but I’m going to give you a little summary real quick.

So they call this woman the Isdal Woman, I-S-D-A-L, because that’s where she was found.

Okay, unidentified.

On November 29th, 1970, two hikers found the charred remains of this woman in this remote valley in Norway.

The body had been burned, someone had probably intentionally been trying to destroy evidence of her identity, but when they researched, they thought she probably was dead before she was set on fire.

So that was not the cause of death.

So the Norwegian police investigated and they couldn’t identify this woman.

It’s again similar to our case because she had no identification, all of her labels had been removed.

She was turned into a Jane Doe.

She was a 25 to 40-year-old European woman, and she had multiple signs of trauma.

So again, something happened to her before this.

She had coded writings with her and foreign currency from multiple different countries.

So people were like, yeah, this sounds like a spy, right?

So she could have also been working for the KGB and intelligence agency.

So again, a lot of people have believed that she was involved in some Cold War espionage, whatever.

And so if you believe that, I mean, it’s like they did it once, why wouldn’t they do it again?

It’s a very similar story to this lady.

Right, if the pattern matches.

Right.

And then our very last theory is that this was organized crime.

So in the 90s with the collapse of the USSR, many former KGB officers went on to work in like for organized crime because they knew how to use international banks and they could like effectively carry out tasks in Europe.

James Woolsey, who was a director of the CIA in the 90s, said, quote, if you should strike up a conversation with an articulate English speaking Russian wearing a $3,000 suit and a pair of Gucci loafers and he tells you that he is an executive of a Russian trading company, then there are four possibilities.

He may be what he says he is.

He may be a Russian intelligence officer working under commercial cover.

He may be part of a Russian organized crime group, but the really interesting possibility is that he may be all three, and none of these three institutions have any problem with the arrangement.

So kind of a known fact that like organized crime and intelligence is all one of the same.

Yeah.

So anyway, that’s the third theory is that perhaps she was involved in organized crime.

So what are your final thoughts there?

What do you think?

I feel like not enough of the evidence matches, like one gunshot heard, two gunshot bullet holes found, like nothing matches, like the inconsistency.

So it’s really hard, but I think I’m leaning towards that she was a spy.

Yeah.

I want her to be a spy.

I think she was for sure a spy.

I think she had a handler.

I think there was a man with her.

And they could have also been a part of the people investigating to like hide the evidence.

Yeah, we’ve seen that happen.

Yeah, and I mean, she’s seen with like makeup.

She’s well kept.

She’s clean.

Everyone’s talking about this roller suitcase she has.

All of a sudden, she’s dead.

All these things are gone.

Why did she just have 25 bullets at a briefcase?

What was that about?

You know, what was she doing out in the world for 20 hours?

She’s up to something.

And yeah, yeah, it’s just too suspicious.

Yeah, I think she’s a spy.

I think she’s a spy, too.

Yeah.

But I’m sad that no one was like, oh, yeah, that was my daughter.

You know, I didn’t even think about that.

Like she’s just unidentified.

And when you watch when you watch Unsolved Mysteries, it’s like really sad.

Really just in like an it’s like an unkept park with like overgrown grass.

And she’s just like buried there with no label.

That’s really sad.

Yeah.

Well, so I would recommend I mean, I love Unsolved Mysteries.

We’ve talked about this before.

Yeah.

But I would check out the episode if you’re unfamiliar.

But it’s kind of wild.

And then again, this the second case, I started to go down a rabbit hole on the is doll woman.

And then I was like, I we got to save that for another app.

I can’t.

Yeah.

So you don’t think she just had a mental breakdown and committed suicide?

No, because I think the evidence is just too weird.

It’s a little too weird.

This is like when I say, I believe it, you guys get it.

I’m like, wait, wait, wait, you got it.

Can’t hold on.

And we’re not calling it a men TV.

No, I don’t think so.

Yeah, it’s too weird.

Yeah.

There’s definitely had to be someone else involved helping her out.

Like with whatever she was doing, there was someone else involved.

And 100 percent.

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Well, do you want to take over for Kait and tell people what they should do?

Scroll on down.

Wait, what do we say now?

Stop.

Take your phone out, text three people who you think are a spy.

I mean, my parents have a friend and they’re-

They think it’s a spy.

Yeah, and they’ve asked him multiple times, like, were you CIA?

And he said, I was never on their payroll.

Oh my God.

That seems funny.

Yeah, but we’ve had some CIA patients.

Yeah, I’ll text them.

But I’m always skeptical when they say that, because I’m like, I thought the whole point was you couldn’t tell people you were CIA.

So when I feel like when I meet people in the world who are like, I’m CIA, I’m like, but are you?

I’m like, low level.

Your security clearance is not that high if you’re telling everyone about it.

Okay, so yeah, send this to three people who you think are a spy.

Yeah.

And so see you next Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday.