We’re using our medical background to focus on the strange, baffling, and downright unsettling world of medical mysteries.
We’re gonna dig into unusual cases, diagnostic puzzles, unexplained symptoms, and medical misadventures.
Our first three seasons covered a little bit of everything, including crime, conspiracy, mystery, and the occasional rabbit hole we probably shouldn’t have gone down.
Those episodes aren’t going anywhere, so the archives remain open for anyone who likes their mysteries, a little more broad spectrum.
But from season four on, the prescription is different. More medicine, more mysteries, more questions. So grab a drink, hit the follow, and tune in every Tuesday for a new episode.
And this week’s episode is one of the strangest we’ve ever covered. In May 2008, identical twin sisters Ursula and Sabina Erickson appeared on a busy motorway in England, behaving so bizarrely that what happened next was captured almost entirely on camera. Within minutes, both women ran directly into traffic. Ursula was struck by a truck, Sabina was hit by a car, thrown onto the pavement, and then somehow got back up. But what makes a story a medical mystery isn’t just what happened on that highway. It’s what happened afterward and the question of whether two people can become trapped inside the same delusion. The Erickson twins have become one of the most famous cases associated with foli ado or shared psychosis, a rare and controversial psychiatric phenomenon in which delusional beliefs appear to be transmitted between people with a close relationship. And if the motorway footage seems unbelievable, just wait, because somehow that is only the beginning of this story. So as part of our Thursday throwbacks, we’re re-releasing one of our earlier episodes with fresh context and new appreciation for just how perfectly it fits into the world of medical mysteries. Were Ursula and Sabina experiencing a shared psychotic disorder? Was something else happening medically or psychologically? And how did an incident involving two Swedish twins on an English motorway ultimately end in murder? Welcome back to the absolutely baffling case of the Erickson twins.
Now going into this, I know absolutely nothing.
Okay. Well, I’ve compiled some video for you as well. This is a wild story. So yeah, I’m gonna give you the official story and then we’re gonna dig a little deeper, okay? I love digging deeper. Ursula and Sabina Erickson are identical twin sisters who were born in Sweden in 1967. They’re the youngest of four children and had an uneventful happy childhood without any evidence of mental health issues or substance abuse. Eventually, Ursula moves to the United States, and Sabina moved to Ireland, where she was living with her partner and two children in 2008. On Friday, May 16th, Ursula goes to visit her sister in Ireland. Overnight, the sisters travel by ferry to Liverpool, arriving Saturday morning at 8:30 a.m. Three hours later, they board a bus to London. However, the sisters get off of the bus at a service station and begin walking down the M6. The M6 motorway is the longest motorway in the UK. It’s six lanes wide with a median running down the middle. So three lanes going each direction, one median. The CCTV camera captures the girls on the median and motorway cops being filmed for a reality show were sent out to check on the girls. The girls were initially calm on the side of the road chatting with cops when suddenly Ursula bolts into the street, running into the side of a truck traveling 90 kilometers an hour and crushing her legs. Oh my god. While officers tend to Ursula, Sabina bolts into the motorway where she was promptly hit by a car. Oh my god. She remained unconscious for 15 minutes before she woke up combative and fighting with police. The girls are shouting at each other, I recognize you, you aren’t real, and they’re going to steal your organs. What? Sabina again tries to bolt from the officers and was restrained by officers and pedestrians. It took six people and chemical restraints to subdue her. Both sisters are taken to the hospital for evaluation and treatment. Ursula was taken to surgery and spent months convalescing in the hospital. Toxicology screens were negative for drugs and alcohol. Sabina, however, is released after evaluation and arrested for trespassing and assault on a police officer. At booking, she denies any medical history, psychiatric history, or suicidal ideations. While there, she is pleasant and joking with the officers. She states, We say in Sweden that an accident rarely comes alone. Usually at least one follows. Maybe two. On May 19th, she pleads guilty to her charges for assaulting the police officer and trespassing on the motorway and is sentenced to one day in jail or time served. Just one day? One day. She’s released from jail, and while praying in front of a church, she meets Peter and Glenn. Peter Malloy is 27. Glenn Hollingshead is 54. So they’re out walking Glenn’s dog after having been at the pub around 9:30 p.m. They run into Sabina, who’s looking for a BB recommendation, and she tells them that she’s looking for her sister. As there was nowhere nearby to stay, Glenn, a retired RAF and part-time paramedic, full-time welder, invites her back to his house for the night and promises to help her locate her sister. Glenn’s friend said this was just normal behavior for him. He was just like a helpful guy. Okay. Peter said that he got a vibe like she was maybe on the run from an abusive ex and seemed paranoid. In fact, at one point while having a few drinks, she offers the men a cigarette from the pack she had been smoking from all night. But when they put them in their mouth, she starts screaming that they may be poisoned.
What?
Peter leaves at about midnight and Glenn assures him that all will be fine. The next day, after reaching out to his brother for help finding Ursula, he goes next door to ask his neighbor for some tea. Glenn goes back into his house, and less than a minute later he comes out bleeding and saying, She stabbed me. She stabbed me. What? The neighbor calls the cops and Glenn begs him to look after his dog before dying. Those are his final words. Look after my dog. Sabina is then seen fleeing the scene on CCTV. She runs for a while before stopping, then hitting herself in the head with a hammer that she had carried out of the home. A pedestrian tries to wrestle the hammer from her for her protection, but she hit him over the head with a roof tile that she had in her pocket and keeps running before leaping off a 40-foot bridge. After suffering a skull fracture and bilateral ankle fractures, she is hospitalized before being released into police custody and charged with the murder of Glenn Hollingshead.
Oh my God.
In the end, there is no trial. Psychiatrists for both the defense and prosecution agree that she was clinically insane at the time of the crime, but was sane at the time of the trial. She pleads guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility. The defense claims that she had folly adieu. It is French for a madness shared by two, and it is a rare psychiatric syndrome of shared psychosis between two people, usually related. The lawyers allege that Ursula was the primary sufferer, and Sabina was the secondary sufferer. So when Ursula went to visit Sabina, Ursula was insane. Then spending time together caused Sabina to become insane. She’s sentenced to five years in prison, and apparently in prison she becomes this like born-again Christian. She only served a total of three years and she was released in 2011. The judge described it as quote, one of the most difficult cases he had ever had to sentence, saying, Well, the mental illness resolved quickly, both psychiatrists agree it was serious, and that she behaved in the way she did because of her illness. Her culpability for her behavior is on the medical evidence, accordingly low. She was suffering from delusions which she believed to be true and they dictated her behavior. It is also not one of those cases where the defendant could have done something to avoid the onset. It had a sudden onset, it was a serious illness while it lasted, and it resolved rapidly. The sisters have since disappeared, and nobody is aware of their current whereabouts. There is no record of them ever having committed another crime. Okay, so I have questions right out of the bat.
How old were they again? At this time? Forty. So I do believe like psychotic episodes happen and they can be short term. But I always understood like most psychotic episodes like that happen during like extremely stressful life events. Like something has to trigger it. And if Ursula was the first crazy one, what was going on with her during this time? And how long was Ursula crazy? Yeah, I don’t buy the shared madness story. And like, why were they in England?
So the deal is that they there’s so much footage about this because, like I mentioned in that introduction, they were filming this like cops type television show in England. So there were cameras filming that captured a lot of this.
Okay, so immediately I have a theory. The girls knew that the cameras were gonna be there and they wanted to be famous in some way. And like we’re going, you know how like reality people go crazy so they can’t.
So they killed someone so they could be on camera. You’re right, you’re right, you’re right.
Yeah.
That was the overview. Right. They’re crazy. And again, that is like the official BBC story. So BBC actually came out with a documentary about this after it happened because they had so much footage from that television show that they were filming. I watched that not that long ago, like in the last couple months, and then I went to watch it again and I couldn’t find it because I think they’re releasing another one. Uh uh, and maybe that’s why it’s hard to find. But I, you know, did a deep dive down the Reddit rabbit hole on this one. I read the book, I’ve watched all the docs, I’ve listened to the podcasts, and I’m gonna tell you the more complete story.
Because there’s gotta be this is an onion, and we’re peeling back the lips.
Uh, and again, considering kind of this how wild this case is, and how how often it’s been covered, there’s really not a lot of uh information out there about these twins, about their childhood or about what happened to them after. Which again, I think just makes the whole thing even weirder. Like, how do people just disappear? Yeah, where did they come from in the first place? But what does exist online is a lot of like kind of hearsay people who are online who claim that they like, you know, grew up in the same town and that kind of thing. So you have to sort of take it with a grain of salt. But again, the story you always hear is like, oh, they had a happy, uneventful childhood, and it sounds like it was maybe not quite so happy and uneventful. Okay. Allegedly, they were reported to be athletic, hyper, perhaps kind of aggressive. There was a report of at least one school fight. Uh, they were a little odd and often bullied. Sabina was very protective of her sister, who was born with a quote, minor injury. There are also multiple sources online who claim that they were born conjoined with Ursula’s nose to Sabina’s lower back.
Was that the lower the injury? You know what it’s like?
Yeah, that’s what that’s I think the implication. But here’s the only proof I could find. So this is this photo from 1977. Oh my god. But then there’s no other photos anywhere of them as they were conjoined. That’s definitely so. There’s like this one picture, and then it gets even weirder because, like, again, I couldn’t find any other photos of Ursula. So again, Ursula is the one who lives in the United States. Ursula’s went crazy first. Allegedly went crazy first. She was hospitalized for much of the the second part of our story. With the weird nose. With the weird nose. Okay. But you can’t find any other photos online of Ursula that are clear enough to see her face. Everything is like kind of a blur or her profile or whatever. Somebody did post on Facebook this high school photo and notice Ursula is out sick on photo day. Oh my god. Like, just one more missed opportunity for any kind of photographic ev. We have zero children photos of her childhood, except for that one photo.
I that is very weird, and I’m sensing mommy issues. I’m sensing mommy wants her kids to look pretty. Okay. Um like doesn’t let pictures be taken.
I don’t know.
That’s what I’m sensing.
Okay, so again, these two sisters have two older siblings. Mona is the oldest, and then the brother Bjorn. These names. And then the two of them are twins. Well, they’re sweet. Oh, they’re okay, okay. Oh, I forgot. So there’s not much online about Mona, the oldest sister, except that she had a difficult childhood. And then we know that Bjorn struggled with substance abuse and criminal activity. I did find a video of Bjorn from several years ago, and he was being interviewed by a reporter, and he was clearly high and or drunk, and he’s talking about how he was like homeless by choice. So I would say that they all seem to have a bit of a troubled childhood.
I was gonna say, I feel like BBC cannot say they had a healthy, happy childhood if like their brother’s that fucked up. He does not look healthy.
Okay, and then you were asking about their parents.
The parents?
Yeah, because I’m sensing they’re messed up. So I don’t have a ton of information for you about the parents either, but here’s what I do know. Okay. So their mother was Yvonne Olsen. She was born in 1937. She was not married to the children’s father. The father was Sixton Erickson. Okay. He was born in 1922, so quite a bit older than their mom. Ooh, groomy. Uh at age 18, he lost an arm during the Finnish Winter War, and he was known to be an alcoholic. Someone online posted that he would be, quote, shit-chatting, bullshitting, oftly complaining about the gypsy woman who gave birth to his twins who was conjoined with the nose to the back and the older boy who was a petty thief. Oh. So I don’t know. He died in 1989 at the age of 67 when the girls were 22. Okay, so daddy issues. Daddy issues. Okay. But prior to his death, Yvonne and the kids moved to Gothenburg in the early 1980s, and that’s where most of the witness reports come from. These people who were online posting that they knew them and they grew up with them. It’s from this town.
So their mom was essentially a single mom for about most of their life. Correct.
This is a pretty small town. There’s only like 1,200 people. And at some point, Yvonne, the mom, was living in the women’s housing accommodation, which is homeless. It’s a shelter for women who are homeless andor have issues with substance abuse andor interpersonal abuse. These kids did not have a happy childhood. Definitely, I think, not quite as pretty as it was painted. No way. Yvonne had an arrest in the 90s for shoplifting. She has since moved out and lives in a nearby Swedish town with a Finnishman who employed Biorn as a welder at some point. Does that mean that it’s possible their mother could have potentially had substance abuse or mental health issues? 100%. Could these kids have been exposed to a toxic environment growing up? Social services reportedly visited their home often and they had goats roaming inside the home. Wait, I kind of like this.
I would like that. That’s very Swedish. Is it? I don’t know.
So Ursula did not complete her schooling and she left the area before Sabina. In the late 1990s, Ursula is living in the United States with a boyfriend and she’s working as a waitress. So based on my internet sleeping skills. Yeah, because you’ve you found them. I found them. We’ll get to we’ll get to where they are now. I’m not gonna We’re not gonna reveal blow them up, blow up their spot. So I’m not gonna reveal too much information, but I did find them. But the information’s out there, the internet exists, but do your own. Yeah. But it does sound like uh she lived in Santa Barbara and Sabina’s son, so Sabina lives in Ireland, that her son lived with Ursula in Santa Barbara between 2000 and 2006. And it looks as though Sabina might have resided with them for some period of time, as recently as 2007. Okay. Why? Like what was going on with the family dynamic, what was happening, that remains unclear. Okay. But this is all contradictory from the publicized story that the sisters had been separated for years and then suddenly just decided to go on this trip together. We know that they had at least seen each other a year. Yeah. They were probably living together prior to that. It also appears that Sabina’s partner was from the United States and grew up in Georgia. And he was living in Kylene, Texas from 2006, 2008. And we know Simon, so Simon is Sabina’s son that lived with Ursula for time. We know that Simon spent some time in Kylene. So but the theory is that Sabina, this partner Sabina has in Ireland that she lives with, might not be a good person. She correct. She might have met him in in the United States. He appears to have had some kind of history. Some kind of history of like domestic abuse or something, some kind of record. But again, just like a lot of empty years here, we don’t have a lot of information for. Okay. So then by 2008, Sabina has settled down in Cork County, Ireland. Okay, so that’s like a little background. And then we know that they get together. So we know Ursula flies to Ireland to see Sabina. Right. We don’t really know like if this was a spur-of-the-minute trip, if this was a planned trip, what was going on. And the official story was that they left Dublin and traveled to Liverpool via ferry and arrived at 8 30 a.m. But nobody has come forward to ever say they witnessed them on this ferry. We have CCTV all over the place about this case, which actually takes me back to Princess Diana.
That you’re so just gonna say, why were the cameras off with Diana, but now they’re on?
Yeah, because I think Well, they were in Paris with Diana, but yeah, but I do think that the CCTV in the United States, when you watch these true crime shows, they’re always out. And I wasn’t that like impressed. But I’m like, look at how you have so much CC TV.
Well, I feel like the cameras are always on and running, but they’re choosing what they want to reveal, uh-huh. Which I’m wondering if that plays a part with this.
So there is no CCTV footage of them like getting on or off the ferry. The other issue with this story is that they reportedly did not have a car in England, but all of the ferries out of Dublin are for vehicles only. So there’s no pedestrian-only ferries. So if they were going to board a ferry without a car, they would have actually had to have traveled to Northern Ireland and gotten what they call a foot passenger ticket, which destroys this whole timeline. So again, more questions is like, why is this official story? Oh, they hopped, they hopped on this ferry from Dublin, got to Liverpool in the morning. Yeah, I’m so confused. But like that story doesn’t track. But what would be the motivation for anyone to lie about that? Right.
I don’t like it. I’m confused. Yeah. I’m like, why would they lie about that part? Why does that part play?
Okay, so the next incongruency here. So I told you that they get off this ferry and at 8:30 in the morning and three hours later they get on a bus toward London. Right. Okay, there was an extra stop between the ferry and the bus to London. No. What’d they do? When they arrive in Liverpool, their first stop was St. Anne’s Police Station. No. Where at 8 40 a.m. they report that they feared for the safety of Sabina’s children.
No.
So why would you leave your children in Ireland, come to England and be like, I want to report to you that I’m concerned about the safety of my children in another country?
Well, Ireland and England are like the UK.
But it still doesn’t make sense. You’re not gonna you’re not gonna You’re not gonna drive to Massachusetts and say, I’m worried. Hey, my kids are being abused. Yeah, and the DMV, and I just left them there and fled up to New England, and now I’m gonna call for help. Like it’s not a good thing. No, that doesn’t make sense any sense. So Sabina claimed that her partner had kidnapped her two children the previous evening. She said that she felt frightened and left the children with her partner, their father. So the British police contact the police in Ireland to check on things. Wait, who kidnapped them? The her partner.
But then she also was willing to um That’s uh that’s why it doesn’t make any sense. Yeah, I don’t get it.
Like, no judgment. If if you’re in an abusive situation, you gotta get out of there. But it just seems weird that you would flee to another country. Yeah, like there’s so many other like and then call for help when it’s like not even the right jurisdiction to help you, right? It’s just weird.
It’s just like another weird and I feel like the delay in response. Like now the UK government has to figure out who to call in Ireland, and then they yeah, like no. It doesn’t make any sense.
So the British police contact the police in Ireland to check on things at 11 a.m. The Garda police call the police at St. Anne and say that they had gone to the house, they spoke to the partner who said that they had had a fight the night prior regarding money, and he was surprised to hear that she had left the country. They talked to the kids, everything seems to be in the up and up. And the Garda promised to check on the kids again this weekend and pass it on to social services on Monday. So after this interaction, the St. Ann police give the girls the contact information for the police in Ireland and tell them, you know, go home, reach out to them, they’ll help you. So the twins leave the police station. Again, this was just like another weird stop that was not initially revealed to us and doesn’t make a ton of sense.
It’s feeling like the girls probably had red flags that the police were not picking up on. Like mental illness, red flag.
Well, and it and then it becomes weird because later on in the BBC documentary, when everything that happens later happens, they comment like, oh yeah, I called. It’s it’s like on the footage, this police officer saying, Oh yeah, I called her partner. He had no idea where she was. And you would think if you allegedly had this conversation the m the morning up, so do you understand what I’m saying? Yeah. That like later on when they run into the street, like it they that when they reach out to the partner, he’s like, Oh, I didn’t know where they were. But here you’re claiming that. At 8 40 in the morning, some police officer talked to the partner in Ireland who was like shocked to learn that they were in England. So then why six hours later would you be like, Oh, what? I had no idea where that was. Yeah, that makes zero sense. So many holes. So they get on this bus at 11:30 a.m. And the initial story was that the bus stopped for a driver change at a service station, and the girls got off the bus. When you look online, sometimes it says that they asked to get off because they felt sick. Sometimes they say it was for um a driver’s change. We do know this was not a planned stop. And it sounds like I don’t know whether they got off and tried to get back on or what happened, but the driver was really uncomfortable because they were holding on to their bags like for dear life, and he wanted them to put it in the luggage container underneath the bus, but they didn’t want to separate from their bags. Exactly. So he was getting nervous. He was like, Is it like a bomb or something? So he asked if he could look in the bag and they said no. So he was like, Well, then you can’t get back on my bus. Um so he kicks him off the bus and he tells the manager of the uh service station, like, they’re your problem now, you figure it out, and he takes off. My God.
Okay. So now we have these two women hanging out in the uh just bus in the bus station.
In the bus station. And it sounds like the manager watched him for a while and was like, Yeah, something is definitely up. So she calls the cops and she specifically says to them, I think they might have a bomb. Okay. So so she’s calling this in as like a fear for a bomb threat, okay? Oh my god. So you would I would expect an immediate response. Yeah, and what else what kind of response would you expect? Like a SWAT team. Yeah. So three cops show up, no dogs, oh no, no bomb, anything. These cops don’t even search the bags, they stop and they chit-chat with the ladies, and then they decide they’re fine, and they said, you know what, we gave her information, gave the girls information on how to get the next bus, and we left them to it.
What a threat to society. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Okay, so again, recommend this when we get into future theory. And this is 2008.
Yeah.
So okay that was 9-11. Yeah. They’d given the girls information for the coach company, told them to catch the next bus back to London. But again, they hadn’t come from London, so that’s weird phrasing. Are the girls’ line or are the police line? Are the cops is the cops know something? Again, we’ll get into that with the theories. And then there’s actually like a two-hour and 20-minute window between when the cops left them at this bus station and the next time we see them on any kind of camera, uh, and we see them walking down the M6. So, again, what happened in that two-hour and 20-minute window? Anyone’s guess. Oh no. So apparently they were they were pretty close to the M6. 1520, we see these girls walking along the median of the M6. And again, this is all monitored by CCTV cameras. So these people are monitoring, they see them and they send some officers to scope things out. And so it sounds like there’s two types of officers. They’re the there’s the National Highways traffic officers. That’s who responds first. Okay. They aren’t police officers and like they don’t ticket people, they don’t arrest people. Their main function is to keep traffic flowing. And so, like, if there’s an accident, that’s who comes and like helps you get off the road and direct traffic. So when they arrive, the girls are fine. They’re just like chatting on the side of the road with the traffic officers or smoking some cigarettes. And then meanwhile, the next set of police officers show up. And these are the motorway cops who are being followed for that reality TV show. And they show up in their bright yellow reflective jackets, which remember that because there’s also a theory that they always go crazy when they see bright yellow reflective jackets. So just tuck that away. Okay. So the video shows the police talking to the sisters on the side of the road. It looks calm. Sabina’s just like chilling with her cigarette, and then suddenly Ursula, who is speaking to a cop, just bolts back out into the street. He grabs her coat to restrain her, but she slips out. She runs into the side of a car that is traveling 90 kilometers per hour or 50 miles per hour. Miraculously, Ursula’s legs are both badly injured, but she is conscious and talking. So everyone is trying to direct traffic and tend to Ursula. Nobody’s watching Sabina.
So if these traffic people are already here, how come they weren’t like creating a safety diversion for the why is the car still able to go that fast if they’re standing on the side? Well, they’re on the side of the road. Oh no, but you know what I mean? Like I would have thought they would have shut down a lane. I don’t know. Anyways, not a traffic control person, but okay. Keep telling me more.
Sabina then immediately sprints into the motorway where she’s probably hit by a car. Now, when she’s hit by this car, she’s flung into the windshield, shattering it. Dent is dents the vehicle. So it’s like a legitimate hit. I can’t. Uh this was a legit car strike. Sabina’s unconscious for 15 minutes. While Sabina is unconscious, Ursula starts freaking out, spitting, biting, clawing, screaming, fighting. She starts screaming at the police. I recognize you, I know you’re not real. Fifteen minutes later, Sabina comes to and tries to stand up, but the police attempt to restrain her. She becomes screaming to her sister, they’re going to steal your organs. Sabina pops up to her feet and sprints back into the motorway. She punches a cop, jumps the median before running across the other side of the motorway. It takes six of them, including some civilians who had pulled over to help, to carry her back to the ambulance. The woman had to be sedated to be treated. Okay, so in the hospital now. Ursula has a toxicology screen, which is negative for drugs or alcohol. Because I’m gonna be honest, the first thing I see from that she’s crazy. Well, I think substance abuse because that’s like Yeah, like they’re on crack or something. When you have this yeah, like, you know, like on the K hole or something. Oh, yeah. When you have this like super strength, then nothing can keep you down and you feel no pain. I guess what’s interesting is that Ursula had a tox screen that was negative. I guess I would like to know what was actually screened for. And some of these like synthetic drugs, right, don’t pop up, correct? But interestingly, Sabina did not have a tox screen.
The girl who needed six people to be held down.
They didn’t rush.
So she couldn’t consent to it, is what I read online. But how could Ursula Ursula was critically ill and so it didn’t matter? But Sabina’s freaking crazy, so that shouldn’t have mattered either.
I don’t know. Ursula net has shattered both of her legs, so she spends months in the hospital, and that’s kind of the end of her work.
We don’t find out about her being crazy again. So I’m really just intrigued. So Ursula has been in the hospital this whole time and like doesn’t have any like we we don’t know anything else after about her after that. Okay.
Pretty much her part of the story is gone now. Ursula’s hospitalized. Sabina, you know, is treated and then miraculously. This also surprises me. Like, I know concussions don’t necessarily recommend admissions anymore for monitoring, but like I would think a head trauma, loss of consciousness, they didn’t admit her. No. She was like seen in the ER and then discharged. I mean, I would I’m sure that it’s up scans. I would think like epidural bleed when you have like loss of consciousness followed by waking back up. But just like she tried to off herself.
Yeah, you that to me is like a 72-hour e-hold.
Yeah, yeah. So she spends five hours in the ER and then is released to police custody for assault on the police officers. Again, she reportedly declined to talk screen, and uh, she did not get a psych eval. Not even a psych eval in their defense. They did not have those videos that we have, right? To see how we’re doing it. The doctors did it. Correct. But they had the police officers telling the story, and they still didn’t talk about how they were running into oncoming traffic. That sounds like suicidal ideation stuff. Crazy. Yeah. So no psych eval. Sabina’s not even admitted. No. So Sabina sends five hours in the ER. She gets discharged to police custody. The police say she’s so pleasant, they don’t even restrain her for her ride to the police station. She’s actually like flirtatious with the officer. That’s also a sign of psychosis, though. Interestingly enough, also, Sabina never once asked after her sister in the hospital. Oh. And so you would think, you know, for two sisters who were supposedly like attached to the hip, wouldn’t you be concerned about like, how’s my sister? And yeah, they claim that so when she went to the police station to get booked and they asked her, like, do you do you have any past medical history? She says no. They said, Do you have any psychiatric history? She says, No. Have you ever had any kind of thoughts of suicide or attempted suicide? She says no, which I mean she just attempted suicide. Can you trust anything she said? No, but then their argument then is like, well, she didn’t meet criteria for psyche valve because she answered no to all those questions. But like she was literally she trotting in front of oncoming traffic.
What is the mental health education in England at this time? You know what I mean? Like, is there any like psych training whatsoever? Because it’s sounding like it’s a lack of skills on their part more than it is anything.
So she didn’t meet criteria for a psyche vow. So two days later, on May 19th, she pleads guilty to her charges for assaulting the police officer and trespassing on the motorway. And she’s found guilty. She’s supposed to serve a day. She’s already served two days, so she gets released. So what is interesting though is that the initial footage that was released, this BBC documentary, cut a section out. And then this cut section got released years later. And in it, they show two police officers talking about what’s happening while they’re running into the traffic and everything. Okay. And one says, is she under arrest? And the other says, Well, she’ll be a 136. And 136 is like a 72-hour psych hold. So they that when she’s arrested, she was supposed to be out put on a psychiatric hold. And they didn’t do that. But they didn’t do that. Why? Well, I don’t know. That’s the question. But you can at least say, Well, it sounds like the conversation being had is if she gets arrested, it’s going to be a 136. So yeah. Why did all of that just get ignored? And then they wanted to protect themselves, so they cut it out of the footage. I don’t know who they’re trying to blame. I don’t know what they’re trying to cover up, but like these poor women. So she leaves a police station with her clear plastic bag of belongings and walks off to find her sister in some hospital in this country she does she doesn’t live in, is unfamiliar with, okay? Oh my god. And she meets two men, Peter Malloy and Glenn Hollinshead. Okay. So I mentioned that they had been to the pub and they were out walking Glenn’s dog. Peter claims that they got to the pub around 5 p.m. and then met Sabina sometime between 5 30 and 7 30. His story has changed. Um but they claim that she stopped to pet the dog. Like she was across the street. She was like, What a beautiful dog. She crosses the street, she pets the dog, and she tells him, I’m looking for my sister. Are there any BBs around here? And apparently, this is like a pretty sketchy town. Okay. And Glenn was like, There’s nothing like that around here, and there’s nowhere for you to stay. Just come to my house, spend the night, I’ll help you find your sister. Oh no, that poor man. He does not know what he’s getting roped into. But that again, that there’s like a lot of back and forth as far as this like window and what happened, because there’s also some theories out there that maybe Glenn and Sabina had actually met before and this was all kind of staged because she was found guilty to time served. And that then she just hung out in the courthouse until it closed at 4 p.m. because she had nowhere to go. Right. And that Mike, a local pub owner, claimed that Glenn had told him he was meeting some woman by the church at 4:35. Um, so it just seemed like and he like left to go meet this person. And then a couple hours later, when Glenn’s with Peter, he pretends like they just met. So there’s some theories that like they had met before, and that was all some kind of cover-up. That’s very interesting. So they meet. Glenn says, like, you know, there’s really nowhere around here. So just come home with me. So they go back to Glenn’s house, they have a few drinks. Uh Peter claims that he carries her clear plastic belonging bag back from the jail, and in it he saw a watt of cash estimated to be about a uh a thousand euro, a laptop, and three cell phones. Three cell phones. Three cell phones. That’s suspicious. Yeah. So Peter is creeped out by her odd behavior, but Glenn kept telling him, like, it’s good, it’s fine, it’s gonna be fine. Don’t worry about it. It’s not fine. There is no evidence they had any kind of explanations. This was all very innocent on the up and up, allegedly. So at some point, Peter goes back to his house. There’s like a five-minute walk for more beers, and Glenn makes them all sandwiches. The three are sitting around, they’re having a few drinks, they’re smoking some cigarettes. They just said she was having like some really weird behavior swings. Like at some time, she would appear paranoid, she’d be like up at the window looking out the blinds, and then she’d be like totally normal. Peter leaves at about 11:40 p.m. And then she and Glenn go to sleep. And then there’s like 17 unaccounted for hours. We don’t know what happened. We do know that Glenn called his brother at 12:30 the next afternoon. His brother worked at a hospital and he was like, I’m trying to help this girl find her sister, Ursula. So there was some kind of contact made there. And Paul is his brother who’s now very involved in the investigation, and he thinks there’s more to the story. Oh God. But he offers to Paul offers to pick him up and drive him around to see her, but apparently Sabina was like, I’m just too tired. We’ll just let’s just do it later. This can all be confirmed via um telephone records that this all happened. Okay. And then, other than two other calls from his mom and his brother that day, the only call received was from an unknown number. Then at 7:30 p.m., he goes next door to ask his neighbor for some tea, goes back to his house, and less than a minute later he comes stumbling out of the house yelling, she stabbed me, she stabbed me. Note that he said, She stabbed me, not they stabbed me. Uh, because there was a theory that like they’re like that maybe there was someone else. Yeah. He had four stab wounds, one in the neck, one in the heart, and two in the upper abdomen. Oh, she was going to kill. The neighbor calls the cops and b and Glenn begs him to look after his dog. And that just gives me all the feels. He was stabbed through the left ventricle of his heart and through the lung, so he died within minutes. Yeah. Um, so the coming back from that. So when people say, like, oh, he said she stabbed me, she stabbed me, like, was that really clear? Was it gurgly if he had, you know, yeah, he would have called it could it have been like could he have said he stabbed me and it sounded like she, or could he have said they stabbed me? Unclear how how clear I could see that. So the neighbor calls 999, which is like 911 there. It took 25 minutes to get there. It should have taken less than 10. Uh, one minute before their arrival, they get multiple calls about a woman hitting herself with a hammer or mallet on the street. This girl’s nuts. And so she’s just like running, she’ll stop, she’ll hit herself in the head with this mallet or this hammer, run a little bit further. And a pedestrian sees her and he’s trying to help her, so he stops to try to wrestle the hammer from her, but she kept screaming, she hits him over the head with the roof tile that she had in her pocket, and he just loses consciousness, uh, and he keeps running. She then leaps off this bridge and jumps off it into the motorway. They did say it was 12 meters or 40 feet high, but now sources say it’s probably more like 25 feet high. So not quite as aggressive, but still. Uh and then this is where she ends up with her broken legs and a skull fracture. She’s hospitalized until June 6, 2008, and is taken into police custody and charged with the murder of Glenn Hollingshead. This is just a crazy story. Now, in the meantime, Peter, who had left his friend with a random girl, he had not reached out to Glenn again for 33 hours. So he claims he had no idea what that any of this has happened. The next day, he just stumbles upon several items strewn from the uh about the neighborhood that he recognized from that clear bag he carried for Sabina. Oh no. And he talks about um how he like wiped the laptop down because he touched it the day prior, and he didn’t when Sabina wanted him to see some family pictures. He didn’t want anyone to think he was involved in a theft. This all sounds very sketchy. Yeah. Also, Glenn’s family uh were never notified by the police. His brother discovered his death 24 hours later when he saw it on a newspaper. So again, later that week, Peter claims he found strewn items of hers, including her sweater, CDs, and cigarettes around the neighborhood. Meanwhile, Sabina’s arrested, and everything that every question the police ask her, she just says, I don’t know. No, no comment. No comment. She never gave any explanation. Oh my god. Now, review of the autopsy reports give the impression that two separate knives were used to kill Glenn. Oh, so there was a second. Well, we don’t I mean, there the official story is that she acted alone, right? But Well, she could have grabbed the second. But this book, this book that’s uh about the sources, but this is also one that Paul has helped to write. He’s pretty invested in it. Paul is called a brother, right? Yeah. They claim that there were two separate knives, and I will will also pop up here this the image for the viewers to see. The wounds? Uh no, it’s just like the dimensions of the wounds versus the dimensions of the knives. Uh that there are two separate knives used to kill Glenn, is one of the theory, but they only discovered one. Sabina’s DNI profile was on the kitchen knife, and Glenn’s blood was on her jacket. Also, they look, there’s this picture of her in high school. What hand is she writing with there? Left. Left. For the record, left. Yes. Well, if you look at his wounds, his wounds are more consistent with a right-handed assailant.
Oh. To comment on that, there is such a thing as like mirror twins. Have you heard of that before? They’re like identical twins, but they’re like a mirror of each other. And like some of them can be lefty, the other ones righty.
Like I’m wondering, maybe I mean, or she could be she could be antixous. All we all we’re going off here is like a photo, but it’s this is what the writers of the um She was pretty.
I’ll give her that.
Alleg.
Crazy but pretty.
Coroner’s report did not include a toxicology report.
Again, not once did they test her blood.
Well, now we’re talking about the victim.
Oh, okay, right, right, right, right.
Because there’s some theories that he maybe had a history with some Oh, maybe they were doping ups together. And may maybe that’s how he knew her. There’s this whole theory that she could have been a drug dealer. Oh, but there was never any kind of toxicology report done on him. In fact, the pathologist who did this autopsy has had a couple of public disgraces, like um weaknesses found in his previous autopsies.
Do not I thought autopsies would have included a tox screen. I would think that everyone would include that, yeah.
More recent reviews indicate that a separate pathologist assessed the body on behalf of the defense and could not rule out the possibility of two separate weapons. Also, they noted a lack of defensive wounds on Glenn’s body, which indicated that perhaps there was one person holding him back while the other was attacking him.
Question Did we ever find the knives?
They found one knife.
They’re claiming that it was two you needed two different knives. There could be another knife somewhere.
In a madness share by two, they also argued all of these people, the defense, the prosecution, the medical examiner, they all work in the same small office.
Oh, so they all protect each other.
So it could you could pretty easily like you know finagle a cover up.
Kind of like they were all Freemasons and they always protect a fellow Mason. Just like that. Interesting.
Psychiatrists for both the defense and prosecution agree that she was clinically insane at the time of the crime, but was sane at the time of the trial, as I mentioned. She pleads guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility, and the defense claims that this was all because of follet ado.
I don’t know. I just adieu. Sounds like steak for two. Follet ado. Folie adieu. Yo puedo hablar in Espagnol, no puedo hablar in Francais.
So they both thought she was crazy. The defense is the side that came up with this folet adieu theory. Is it a legitimate? Yeah, so I’m gonna tell you about it. It’s it’s French for a madness shared by two. It’s incredibly rare. There’s like five cases of it out there. And again, it’s this rare psychiatric syndrome of shared psychosis between two people. These people are usually related. The lawyers allege that Ursula was the primary sufferer and Sabina was the secondary suffer. So when Ursula went to visit Sabina, Ursula was insane. They spent time together, Sabina becomes insane. And then, as I mentioned, she serves her time and she’s released in 2011. So as far as like, is this a legit? There’s this quote, Professor Nigel Eastman, professor of lawed psychiatry. He was in the original BBC documentary. He says identical twins often have very close relationships. Psychologically, there’s a lot of blurring of the boundary of who is who, and because they’re genetically identical, they would have similar genetic loading. So, meaning, like, if one’s predisposed for psychiatric issues, they both I mean, I totally get that.
That makes so much sense.
But and so the theory is like he says Ursula’s still in Sabina’s mind, even though she’s physically separated from her. This is all very creepy to me, especially if you think about if they truly work for and conjoined, which is gonna say I don’t know if I believe, but I mean I kind of believe that Ursula’s face looks weird. That’s one picture. Also, I’m thinking about conjoined twins. I’ve I mean they were identical. You can be conjoined at any point. Can you? Yeah. Because I just picture it being like they split and then it’s always like they don’t finish splitting, but it’s not always down the middle or at one side.
I could totally see that. I know nothing about conjoined twins. Experts let us know. I could totally see that.
Again, it’s incredibly rare. Usually, this is seen in PC. Who are isolated together, so like living in the middle of nowhere, 24/7. Yeah, there was a documentary.
I’d go crazy.
There was a clip about like a father and a son, and so it was like the father had the delusions, but they were living in this cabin. Uh-huh. That’s the two of them. And so the son develops the delusions because it’s just like you’re around at 24/7. So there’s not really or there’s also instances where it’s like both of them are sociopaths, maybe, and so when they come together, they feed off of that. But there’s not again, it’s like not very common, and there’s and it certainly doesn’t seem to lay out with like their presentation of like not even living together.
They just get together and suddenly they just suddenly were crazy within a 24-hour period.
Yeah. Psychosis usually comes on more gradually and disappears more gradually. It’s not such like a sudden onset, sudden ending like this. Again, more common when people are isolated together for years. The few cases that have occurred have been two people who have already have homicidal intentions and then they get together. But again, there’s no previous history of criminality for either of these. I did reach out to my friend, Dr. Emily. Okay. This is kind of her area of specialty. She says this is not a DSM diagnosis.
Oh, the fluid. Feliadu is not on the record.
No.
Well, DSM also, like within the like last 10 years, only just took up took off being she’s a homosexual. Yeah.
So like I mean, she I guess what she’s saying, it’s kind of a hot topic right now because the thought is when you look at January 6th, yeah, is there a component of this like can sane people be spurred on by other people’s delusions? I think yes. To have an underlying psychosis as well. So pretty much she was like, I don’t know about the shared psychosis. I don’t, I have a really hard time believing that, but I can see someone with mental illness and delusions potentially causing that in another person. Does that make sense?
No, I I agree with what she’s saying.
Um again, she’s like, it’d be more likely you have two folks who are predisposed to a mental health issue. Maybe they had mental health issues in their family, maybe they had a rough childhood.
Which these two women definitely did.
Maybe one has a break, that circumstance and their behavior is sufficient stressor to trigger a break in the other. And she also said 40 is like really old.
If you were gonna But this happens more in your 20s, yeah, like college age. Yeah. Because they that’s like most people who have like psychotic breakdowns are like 18 to 25 or something, but that younger age group. Yeah. That’s what now I’m suddenly. I’m like, they’re definitely on a new kind of drug, then.
The psychiatrist argued that Ursula was the dominating personality and Sabina was easily manipulated. Manipulated.
That’s a thing with twins.
That’s how the yeah Ursula had the dominating personality. Sabina was easily manipulated. So if Ursula’s crazy, Sabina’s gonna be easily manipulated. But that wasn’t actually their dynamic. Like people who grew up with them said it was the opposite because again, Ursula had some kind of medical issue, and the theory is potentially she was separated from her sister, and she’s the one who missed a lot of school. And Sabina was really like the controlling one who was always looking out for her. Oh, it’s a role reversal compared to like what offense is arguing.
This is confusing me. Like I’m like, I’m not confused with what you’re saying. I’m confused with my yeah, I’m yeah, I’m like, what could be going on?
What became of the twins? They really did seem to uh vanish off the face of the earth, and their friends and family have stayed relatively quiet. There were rumors that they were maybe in witness protection.
I thought you found one. Did you find both?
We know Ursula returned to the United States and she changed her name.
I would too.
It’s pretty similar to her current name.
Off the record. What is it? Oh that’s so stupid. Okay.
So Ursula changes her name. She’s got a partner, and in general, all the sources say that nobody knows what became of them. We do know that in 2012, Ursula was living in Bellevue, Washington. She’s very into the church. So this was a picture posted of her in her church. But you can’t really see her face. She was posted all over, and then the church like scrubbed her from their website to help protect her because she’s trying to.
I mean, that’s kind of nice. I mean, good for her for trying to get her life back together. But and that’s nice of the church to protect her for that, but so now you want to know about Sabina?
I did find Sabina on Facebook.
I thought she looked like a real housewife. Like the picture you sent me looked like one of their jail photos. Um who’s the one that does singing but it’s horrible?
That’s like every housewife.
Oh my god. She’s a New York one.
Oh, Luann?
Yeah, she looked like Luann to me.
Okay.
Did you not see that at all? Oh, okay. Megan’s like, no.
She has a job. She’s working in a job that I’m surprised you can do with a criminal record.
Oh my god.
She spends some time in Ireland, some time in Norway. Looks like she’s kind of settled in Sweden now. She’s also spent a lot of time in the US, which again has me thinking She’s with her sister. Well, yeah, but I don’t I didn’t know that felons could just travel. Come into the United States legally. I mean, we could I have no idea, but we also know her son Simon resides in Norway where he’s in school and he has visited Santa Barbara as recently as 2022. So there’s evidence that Sabina and Simon have both been to visit Ursula uh in the United States. Wow. And Simon has allegedly been on forums defending his mom, claiming that she was drugged. But can we verify it’s him on the forums?
No, and can we verify she was drugged? No, because they didn’t test her for anything.
Well, they tested they tested Ursula. Ursula, not Sabina. Yeah.
But I mean, if they’re both having the same reaction, I would assume they’re both on the same drug.
So he says he had never seen her consume more than one or two beers on the weekend. He says like she’s not a murderer, she’s nothing but a loving mother. I’m confident in stating that my mother wouldn’t her wouldn’t kill a fly. I strongly believe that she is being set up because there isn’t any doubt in my mind that she is innocent of killing Mr. Hollingshead unless, of course, she was fighting for her own life, which neither one of us can be sure of. The only thing I’m 100% positive of is that Sabina Erickson is a good mother. No, she’s more than that. She’s the best. She works hard every day for one thing and one thing only, and that’s her children. She’s an honest, well-caring person, has no criminal record and has always been against drugs. The only drug I’ve seen her use is a beer or two in the weekend. Has any one of you internet geeks considered that she might have been drugged?
I think that’s a very if that is her son posting this, because we can’t really tell it’s the internet. But um, that’s a really nice thing to say about your mom. I’m like, that’s really cute.
And then I mentioned the older brother Bjorn.
Oh yeah, the one we shot a video of.
Yeah, because he came out and he just said like they were running for their lives, fleeing maniacs who were trying to rape them. And he just like dropped this one bomb and then like disappeared. And based on that video. Well, and I think he’s since past RIP. The internet is filled with conspiracy theories from the two women being government experiments to the two women being possessed by demons or by alien hybrids. The victim’s own brother has come out to say that something else is definitely going on here. They’ve been unable to get any of the paperwork from the police, including transcripts and videos, and they just think there’s more than shoddy police work going on here.
That is very interesting.
Theory one, we could say, is uh you believe the defense and the prosecution that there was a it was all just phalia do. It was a psychiatric break. Never happened before, will never happen again. Yep. So that’s the first theory. Okay, you believe there is no conspiracy here. Yeah. Okay. Next, the next theory was this like a drug situation. Right. So ABO is a term used by the Brits, I guess, when you’re under observation by the police. ABO. Okay.
But is it an acronym?
Or just like observation, but short. They’re on ABO. Okay. And so the theory is like they were potentially drug runners and the police were onto them, and that’s why they made all these stops, and it was just like people kept letting them go.
Oh, because they were watching them.
They were watching them to get to like the big poncho. Exactly. That’s there are rumors that Sabina’s partner in Ireland was part of a drug trafficking ring and they were already under observation. And then there’s again not a lot of information about this partner. I did read that he maybe was in the military, maybe lived in Texas for a period of time, and maybe had like some domestic assault on the but he was Irish, right?
Or no, we don’t know that. Well, I guess we yeah, we have no idea.
So this man Police described him as quote, a big black bloke covered in gold jewelry, not the kind of bloke you’d wish to approach. He’s a man that locals go to see to sort out any trouble they might have. And he’s the father of Simon. Or that’s also questionable. No, because I as I that’s what I wrote, she might have had some kids and he might have had two kids.
And like So I don’t want to lock down whose kids were parental history of the twins’ children’s is a little confusing. Yeah. Okay.
So again, was there some sort of big drug trafficking happening here? Were the police and government agencies observing them to get to the higher ups? There’s thoughts that like when they were clutching onto those bags and wouldn’t let anybody look in them, perhaps they were full of drugs or full of cash. Well, you know they had a th a thousand euro in their clear plastic bag.
Which is that a lot? So about a thousand euro. I mean, that’s more than I’ve ever held on me. Your plastic bag. In my plastic bag, yeah. And three cell phones. Yeah, the three cell phones when you said that detail, that like lit up a little bit for me. So maybe they were dipping into there.
And so again, that your the service station employee calls to report a suspected bomb. No bomb dogs show up, no SWAT team shows up, three cops show up, they talk to these girls for a couple of minutes, and then never look in their bag and they just like let them go on their way.
Well, if your theory is that the cops were already observing them, maybe that’s why they didn’t invest.
Well, exactly. Yeah, that makes they don’t want to go into their bag and fight. Yeah. They want to just be naive, walk away, and continue their debate.
To continue watching them. Oh. Oh my God. Oh, I’m developing my theory.
Again, we mentioned that Peter saw a pile of cash and Sabina’s belongings. Right. We talked about the multiple phones in the bag. If you believe this theory, you could argue because remember, I told you it was really unclear about that stop that they made. The bus stop. The bus stop, about what, like it sounds like that was not a planned stop. And there’s like theories that like the guy, the driver was uncomfortable, he pulled over. Maybe there was a driver change, which we know is not accurate. Maybe they felt sick, they had to get off, you know, use the restroom. I don’t know what happened. They weren’t allowed back on that bus. So one of the theories could be were they trying to make a deal? Is that why they got off the bus?
Oh, or were they so scared about transporting that much drugs that they started panicking?
Maybe.
I could see that. Well, GI distress from all the anxiety. Girl, we’ve all been there.
And then there’s, you know, again, there was like that two hours and I think I said two hours and 20 minutes unaccounted for between when the cops left them and when they’re walking down the M6, which is really just like a block away.
Yeah.
So people are like, maybe they interacted with someone at that point. Like maybe like a drug person supposed to make a deal, but then like they’re like, hey, we just saw these cops talking to you.
What was it? Make a make a run for it. Like, oh, and maybe they acted crazy to protect the drug lord. I don’t know. I don’t based on the videos, I don’t think they were acting.
But that but that didn’t talk about Bjorn being like they were running from this maniac. And we all think that’s crazy, but was the maniac like the drug lord? That I could see that. Was somebody like, I don’t know if I can trust you, I just saw you talking to these cops. Oh they panicked and they and they thought they were gonna die, so they ran. And again, the fact that they were they every time they go to the police station, they get let out very quickly. Like they go to file their own report, and then it’s like no one’s worried, they just like left their kids, right? That was then they get arrested. She gets released after a day, right?
After it’s too suspicious.
Yeah, she only gets three years after murdering a man.
I do not know much about the UK laws. Maybe they just don’t criminalize people. Well, I think in general, we are harsher than most we are significantly harsher. So I mean, like maybe that plays a part. I don’t know, but without a doubt, though, the police were not doing things appropriately for sure.
And then David Khan, who wrote that book, okay.
Um A Madness Shared by Two, that book by David. What was his last name? Can David Cannon? Glen Can. Yes, he can.
Glenn’s brother Paul is also heavily involved. He’s involved, right? Um, and again, I try to take what they’re saying with a great adult, but there’s so little information out there. And then David Kahn believes that someone else was involved in the murder of Glenn, that the neck and chest wound didn’t match the blade. And again, we talked about allegedly Sabina was left-handed. If we believe this one photo from her high school, a claim is again that she was assaulted from someone with from the right someone who’s right-handed, the two different knives. So they believe that there was someone else involved.
So there’s multiple wounds, four wounds, four wounds, and they think that some are like different weapons. Can they tell which weapon was angled which way? Is that documented? Like, oh, this weapon looks like it came from the right, or did they all come from the right? No. If she’s ambidextrous, maybe she had a weapon in each hand and was just But then and again though, he had no defensive wounds. And I would think that Well, if she clocked him in the neck right away, he’s probably clutching his neck. You know what I mean? I need an I I need the autopsy right now.
Well, the autopsy was shoddily done.
Yeah, you’re right. I forgot about that part.
There was also this question about if Glenn and Sabina had been texting and not met by chance, because the official story is like she’s praying at the church, she looks across the street, he’s walking his dog. He’s just there.
Was he with Peter though?
Yes. So Peter and Glenn leave the pub, they’ve got Glenn’s dog and they’re walking. Peter and Glenn are neighbors, so it kind of and so as far as Peter knew, this was the first time they had met. But one of the theories is that Glenn and Sabina might have met previously, and they were like kind of covering all that up for Peter. Uh so again, I told you that he told his friend Mike he was meeting a girl at the church, and that was like at 4:30 in the afternoon, even though they didn’t meet until sometime between 7:30 and 9:30.
It’s all so suspicious. Yeah. And then isn’t Peter’s story the one that changes? Like he said one time and now, yeah. Is he a trustful historian? Yeah, I don’t know.
And then if she was Obo, maybe one of her associates had told her to like, you know, stay away from us, but go find Glenn. Glenn can help you. Oh Glenn again apparently maybe had a history also of some substance. That wouldn’t make sense. Yeah. So there are some theories that like they coordinated, and maybe he was like, you know, meet me back here at at 7 30 or something. Her belongings, as I mentioned, were littered along the street without anything of value. And so I did I told you that Peter found those the next day.
And he recognized it. Yeah.
Again, does this sound like someone who is having a panic attack stabs someone and flees, or does it sound like a robbery of some sort or like party business who came in and and murdered him? Did he take the cat the water cash and the cell phones and the drugs and the drugs and just leave like set tapes and shit behind?
I gotta say, because she met up with the boys after leaving the jail. Mm-hmm. They would have already checked her bags for drugs, right?
Mm-hmm.
Unless Unless they lied.
Yeah, unless they were following her. Or maybe she didn’t have any drugs. Maybe she’d sold the drugs and this was just like a she just had all the I don’t know. Is it possible that someone had gone to Glenn’s to pick up the watt of cash she had or perhaps some drugs? Is that who killed Glenn? Again, at a minimum, we do know that at some point Glenn was involved with drugs, specifically, he was into some heroin. Also, Glenn’s own brother said he was not domesticated. He lived on takeaway. So the idea that he was making Sabina something to eat two nights in a row was reportedly unlike him. Part of what makes this whole thing crazier too is like we have never heard from Sabina. All we got was no comment when she was interrogated. There was never actually a trial because they had this plea deal. So like we just have we’ve never heard from the city.
She’s just scraped by Yeah. So if this was all about her getting the money to a drug dealer, like assuming she sold all the drugs and this thousand euro was all she had. Like to me, going to a different country, so going like Ireland to England, flying your sister in, going from Ireland to England, assuming it was all for one giant like drug deal, a thousand euro is not that much money. Like I would have assumed she’d be carrying like sixty grand triple digit or not triple six digit amount of money kind of shit. Like this would have been like a huge drug deal.
Yeah, a thousand dollars doesn’t seem enough to be like ABO.
Yeah, and I’m like, and like how many what was the time chunk where we don’t know where she was, like 12 hours or something like that?
Well, there were 17 hours at what point? There were 17 hours what well it’s since leaving the jail. 17 hours between when she was having drinks with Peter and Glenn and the next day when she reportedly killed Glenn.
I don’t know. It just doesn’t seem likely that she had that much cash on her.
Again, when we go back to like never hearing Sabina’s side of the story, like, was she scared? Is that why she said no comment? The neighbor who witnessed the death allegedly claimed off the record that Glenn’s house had been ABO for 18 to 20 months before the though he thought he was only selling pot. Oh his brothers say that he and his ex-girlfriend had racked up a lot of debt with drug dealers, and the family had a lot of fights about his finances and and him tricking his parents for money. In his defense, he was apparently on a methadone program at the time of his death, but we do know that he consumed quite a bit of alcohol.
Going back to what I said about like maybe not enough cash, if we’re dealing with like the biggest jefe for drugs, like I’m gonna assume maybe it’s like gang related to like they probably have people in the hospital, they probably have people in the in the police default defense. You know what I mean? Like they probably have enough connections to slip all this under the rug.
In 2007, 2008, when this all happened, uh there was a crackdown on drug drug trafficking happening in England with Operation Happy Fish and Operation Junko, uh leading to 3.5 billion euros in drugs to be confiscated over four years. There was a massive drug bust of 500 million euros of cocaine being transported to the UK from Dublin. So we’re probably a time period for them to be cracking down on.
I’m settling down on the drug dealing theory now. I I’m thinking I’m leaning. We still have more theories to go through, but like this is making sense. Them being crazy doesn’t make sense, but the reason why they’re there and unless they’re just crazy because they were so scared for the world’s paper. And they were like But Dr. Emily says they’re not the age group to have that quick of a psychotic breakdown.
I didn’t mean psychotic break, but just if it was like I’ve got to get out of this situation, just have to kill myself because the alternative is like but her screaming like, I recognize you.
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know okay. What else we got? All right, theory three hit me. MK Mind Control.
So we’ve talked about MK Ultra many times. Like the question is could the sisters have been subject to a government mind control program? Yes. As a reminder, MK Ultra was a CIA program from the 1950s to early 1970s that used unwitting citizens as test subjects. The mind control studies included secretly dosing patients with LSD and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual assault, and torture. It was exposed in a 1977 Senate hearing. Go back to Montauk Part 2 if you haven’t listened. Episode four.
Episode four.
But again, these experiments had various purposes, including but not limited to creating new identities, inducing amnesia, inserting hypnotic access codes into subjects’ minds, creating multiple personalities, and creating false memories. The research also included placing brain electrodes in people in an attempt to control their behavior from remote transmitters, administering daily dosages of LSD to children for extended periods of time, and using electroconvulsive therapy to erase memories. To obtain accurate information from willing and unwilling individuals, to condition personnel to prevent any outside power from obtaining information from them by any known means, to control future activities physical and mental of any individual, willing or unwilling, and to prevent outside powers from gaining control of activities physical and mental of personnel by any means. To be clear, as far as we know, there has been no more MK Ultra since the 70s. That we know. If they’re willing to do it once, they’re probably willing to do it twice. Their goal was to prevent any outside power from obtaining information from them by any known means. So them it’s like did they have some kind of self-destruct mode? Like you see Oh, like the twins had anything. Like if they were Oh they so over and over again, they’ll be chatting with the police officers, they’re fine, and then like someone walks up with the yellow coat and they’re boom, triggered. So so were they triggered? Like when you see this cop, you must self-destruct. Was this like a self-destruct mode?
My question, like, yeah, I could totally see that. So yeah, they had been in and out of America, but I would have been assumed that I would have assumed that this would have happened in their childhood. Oh my god, I don’t know. I don’t know what I want to believe. I feel like my head’s spinning.
So you brought up a really good point though, because I had the same thought as you that I was like, okay, there’s a lot of things out there like MK Ultra is responsible, but how do you make this leap? Like, how did they even get involved in MKUltra? As like 40-year-old women, yeah. So CIA did go international and they did do MK Ultra experiments in Europe and other countries. Again, we have no proof proof of this happening after like the 70s. Okay. Well, did anything like this happen in Scandinavia? Oh my. These girls grew up in Sweden and spent a lot of time living in Norway, living in Sweden.
Oh my god.
And we’re gonna bring this back to the Nazis for a moment.
Oh my god, yeah, because uh context, these two twins are very white, blue-eyed and blonde.
No, you can see they have dark roots, and then when you see the pictures because the childhood pictures look blonde, children pictures look blonde, and they’re blonde in the 40s in these shots. They’re blonde it this area. They’re brunette now. Okay, and you can see that they have dark roots. Okay, all right, scratch that. But yes, but they would be very Aryan. Yeah, that’s what I was like thinking. I don’t know if the mom was a war child and if maybe that had something to do with something. I do know these children were often experimented on with the approval of the Norwegian government and the financing of the CIA. Oh my god, the CIA. We know as recently as the 70s, the CIA was doing LSD experiments, yeah, dosing people with LSD without their knowledge. Oh my god. Were these girls hypnotized? And that’s what was happening.
Hypnotized would make sense for such a short-term psychotic breakdown. That would make sense.
Was there some kind of like um green card for research? Oh. Because again, I think it’s fishy that Sabina now has a felony conviction. And was able to travel. And she’s still able to travel into the United States, she’s still able to have a job that we feel like is suspicious.
Well, is there a thing where like if your record is so many years old, it does it doesn’t matter?
I don’t know. I heard there were also some theories online that maybe she her Ursula was listing her as like the au pair or something, and they were still Oh hiding her identity or whatever. Or no, but like somehow getting around these restrictions with um immigration. So yeah, that’s the that’s like the mind control thing with the Felier Du theory.
I just they say that Ursula was a crazy one first, but I just don’t think we have enough background about her. Like we hear so much about Sabina because she’s the one that wasn’t hospitalized for weeks, but like I need more about Ursula, and I think it’s not out there. Well, like when sh if she was crazy first, how we’re how come there’s no documented signs of her being crazy?
Before all this.
Before, yeah.
Yeah, and they’re arguing that like they Because who was she living with?
Does she have a partner? She’s got a partner, and he he or she didn’t say anything about her being nuts.
They’re claiming that like, you know, both these girls had to get sedatives in order to like be transported. The videos of them guys is crazy. And then they seem and then they seem normal. And so it’s like, oh, cause was it because they got antipsychotics? But I guess I also yeah, we should have more information because if you’re arguing that like no one is in danger anymore, like what how do you know that? Because you’ve put Ursula on an antipsychotic then there’s another theory that the Soviet Union was working on top secret projects to create super soldiers.
This is uh this is Captain America winning soldier. Uh it aligns with Bucky’s story, like to a T. So I they had to have written him about the theory. He was kidnapped and experimented on, given drugs to become a super soldier.
It always goes back to Marvel. Yes, they are claiming that they were 300 volunteers of young age that were implanted with gold electrodes in their brains, eliminating the pain center. Their limb bones were replaced with titanium implants that protected the soft tissue against landmines or shells, as well as from gunshot injuries. In this case, any injury was not threatening, it would not cause crushing bones and amputations. So they’re claiming these twins are the fact that they just kept getting hit and like getting back up.
Well, I’m gonna say in my career, I have dealt with super strength. Super strength I’ve never seen before. So I feel like when people are confused, delirious, maybe having a psychotic breakdown, they their strength is uh insane. I I don’t think they’re super soldiers, I think they were just crazy.
I mean they were both injured and cared for. I think that also if you lack it’s kind of like when like drunk drivers never get as injured because they relax. Yeah, and they’re lacking the whatever adrenaline rush they had going on. I mean, both of their legs ended up crushed. Yeah.
So they weren’t all okay. Which is very twin of them. They both succumbed to the same injury to bilateral injury.
They were very athletic. Everyone said athletic their whole life. They look like some I mean athletic build.
You see the video of Sabina running away, and like that woman like jumped the fence like a gazelle and then got hit by a cover. I shouldn’t be laughing, but it was impressive.
Um, there’s also a theory about possession that like demonic. Yes, that like the superhuman strength was proof of like demonic involvement. They mean they both very religious. And the one uh Ursula had like a an exorcism done in her local church.
Oh my gosh.
But again, there’s like all there was she was all over the church’s website for a brief period of time, and then the church took down the photos to protect her. Well, I was thinking kind of like anti-NMDA encephalitis. But again, both of them having it at the same time, and then both of them getting better without explain what that is for the public. Uh so because that’s a big word, Megan. Anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis is a type of encephalitis, inflammation of the brain. You can watch uh on Netflix. Oh, the yes, that’s a good movie. There’s also a book about it, but often these patients present like they’re having like mental breaks. They’re crazy. Yeah. And so sometimes it’ll be like people wandering their street naked, and it’s someone who had like no psychiatric history.
You find out their brain is literally on fire.
Yeah, their brain is attacking itself. Usually there is some kind of teratoma or mass, like a uterine or testicular mass. You have to remove that, and then the body stops attacking itself. But like if you look at if you watch Brain on Fire book, it starts with her just kind of being paranoid.
Like at first, you think she has bed bugs and like hallucinating.
And it’s like people are out to get her, and it’s just like progressive.
And they just keep putting her on meds in the movie. Yeah.
And then eventually you start having seizures, and then your seizures can’t stop, and you like go into a coma and you die, unless you get some good like immunosuppressant uh treatment and source control if you have like a tumor.
I could agree with you on that same point. I could see these girls having some form of encephalitis.
But the fact that like they both got at the same time, and then they both got better without treatment.
Oh, without treatment is definitely weird. But getting at the same time, that’s not, I don’t think that’s weird for a twin. Like you see them getting like, oh, both twins miraculously get their appendix. All right, hit me with the cult.
The family international formed as the children of God.
This is the cult we’re assuming they were part of.
The children of God is this cult. The Family International was a religious movement founded in 1968. It’s gone through a number of different names, including Children of God, Family of Love, and the Family. And so the reason this even pops up as like a potential thing is that Sabina, did you see her wearing her red visor with her long red coat? I saw the coat.
I did not take note of the visor, but you mentioned it.
So the visor that Sabina was wearing said, quote, time to believe, which I guess is a phrase used with this cult with this cult. So a little background. The British court ruled, based on testimony by former members, that this was an authoritarian cult which engaged in physical and sexual abuse of children. Oh God. The leader was David Berg, or Father David, and he preached like doom and gloom, very apocalyptic, uh, end of the world type stuff. He preached hippie communal living, and in the 70s, he had 130 communities in 70 countries and 10,000 members. They were opposed to abortion, homosexuality, drugs, drunkenness. They also practiced severe corporal punishment and sequestration of minors. So here was what was interesting. They had this thing called flirty fishing. Oh God. Which pretty much just encouraged females to have sex with potential converts. So uh there were about a quarter million recipients of flirty fishing, uh, with a hundred thousand converts in the 70s and eighties. The twins were well, they think that Sabina was flirting. They think Sabina, whenever she was calm, she was very flirty. She was like flirting with all the police officers.
Now I thought this was another aspect of her like psychosis because confused people can be overly sexual. Yeah. Again, you just like have that frontal inhibition. Yeah. Um lizard brain, right? Mate, mate, mate, mate.
Anyway, they also released a statement in 1989 to its members reminding them that adult child sexual contact was grounds for immediate excommunication. Like, so glad that you made that an official announcement. Yeah, they came out and they said, Yeah, in the 70s and 80s, they were minors subject to sexually inappropriate advances, but now we have this new policy, we’re all good. So this fine founder died in the 90s. His widow, Karen Zerby, took over, along with Berg’s assistant, whom he had handpicked for her. So she’s like the queen and he’s the queen consort. There’s a lot of famous people in this cult: River and Walking Phoenix. Oh my God. Rose McGowan, and then like one of the early members of Pleatwood Mac. Loving Jesus is the term they use to describe their intimate sexual relationship with Jesus. They believe the followers are Christ’s bride, and they encourage members to join them during sexual intercourse and masturbation.
Oh my god.
Male members are cautioned to visualize themselves as women in order to avoid homosexual relationships with Jesus. It’s so bizarre.
And the only weak connection we have between the twins and this cult is Sabina’s visor.
Yeah, the only connections I could find to this theory were like the fact that she had this visor on. They went on to become very religious, both of them, and the fact that there was like some hypersexual behavior, which again, as you said, I think psychotic breaks can also disinhibit. Disinhibit. Yeah.
Yeah. I’m I don’t know if I believe they’re in this cult.
In 2010, this cult did have a raid where they seized a lot of marijuana plants. I think that if we’re believing that this was like an ABO situation, like you said, it would have to be more than this after an international drug trafficking scheme and probably not just like some marijuana that the cult is growing.
No, no, no. I don’t know. I think I don’t think they’re a cult. I don’t think they were possessed by demons.
You don’t think they’re Soviet super Oh, yeah.
I also don’t think they’re super soldiers. I do believe a little bit of the folia do. But the only part that confuses me with that is that I just don’t know enough about Ursula. Because the whole point of that theory is that Ursula made Sabina crazy. And I just don’t think we have enough documentation on Ursula pre-incident to like play into that. I think they went crazy in England, like in Ireland or England. Like I don’t think the crazy happened before.
It would make more sense to me then that Sabina would be like, I need you to come here. It would make more sense to the Sabina was the crazy one.
Yeah.
Distress doesn’t make so much sense for her defense though, which is arguing that like she’s not a risk to anybody because it was only her being and if that’s the case, then it seems like her and Ursula shouldn’t be allowed to hang out if it’s like, oh, this was only with Ursula.
Ugh. Yeah. I don’t know. Like I think in some way, no matter what the background story was, they were psychotic in that moment. But were they psychotic because they were on drugs? Were they psychotic because they were just crazy together? It’s mental breakdown plus drugs, I think is my final verdict. Drug dealing. What if Sabina’s partner, who was the allegedly Oh, I forgot about his character because he was a weird guy.
Yeah. So if he allegedly he was in he was like a guy has traveled, he’s bounced around.
Right. So if he’s a part of a drug dealing, like hierarchy, they allegedly had a fight about money. But she took something from him.
Yeah.
Like maybe she gr took something from him.
But like was the fight about money like him. Or was it about if we need money, go make this deal? And like she didn’t want to do that.
I don’t know.
You know, I don’t know. What was this? Apparently he was also under observation. But yeah, something happened. Is she like, I need my sister, her sister comes. Maybe they’re not like, you know, experienced drug mules.
Yeah. Knowing what we know about where they are and what they do now. I don’t think anybody that was ever under ABO or was ever with a criminal record could be where they are right now.
Like unless unless they were informants. Yeah, unless they like plea deal out of it.
Yeah.
You give us all the information on these drug.
My record clear.
Yeah. We’ll make sure.
I could see that. Because the giant drug bust in Ireland and England happened like three years after this.
2007, 2008, like right when this is.
Yeah, I could see that. I could see that. I think that’s gonna be my final verdict. I think mental breakdown and drug dealing.
Glenn’s brother is like, I’ve been trying and trying to get and he can’t anything from the police.
Because you’re keeping it hush.
And they can’t get access to anything. Yeah, he’s like, you know, we didn’t really get closure because we didn’t there was no trial. And then when he’s like, Can I see any kind of like transcripts, any kind of you know, video, anything, any what evidence did you have? No one is able to provide that.
So I’m like uh the true core issue of this situation is like mental health issues. Like, I think they were having a psychotic breakdown. I think it involved drugs, I think it was purposely kept hush hush, but I’m sure that not every police officer was involved in the overarching background storyline. And I’m sure not everybody was properly trained with how to deal with people having a psychotic breakdown.
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