We’re using our medical background to focus on the strange, baffling, and downright unsettling world of medical mysteries.
We’re gonna dig into unusual cases, diagnostic puzzles, unexplained symptoms, and medical misadventures.
Our first three seasons covered a little bit of everything, including crime, conspiracy, mystery, and the occasional rabbit hole we probably shouldn’t have gone down.
Those episodes aren’t going anywhere, so the archives remain open for anyone who likes their mysteries, a little more broad spectrum.
But from season four on, the prescription is different. More medicine, more mysteries, more questions. So grab a drink, hit the follow, and tune in every Tuesday for a new episode.
Ricky bought us a cup of coffee, ladies. All three of us. Thank you very much, Ricky. She said, love the new medical focus so good. Oh, with three exclamation points.
Oh, I love an exclamation point. I think some people think they’re annoying, but I love them.
Also, the Alcatraz Epp was awesome. So that must be the one Colleen and I did after we lost our first one.
Yeah, that’s what felt like the first one for me.
Yeah. But thank you for getting me through my view, y’all. Again, thanks for buying us a cup of coffee. So let’s get into it. So is it time for our drink? Drink chat. We’re not all having the same thing today. No. No, Megan, what are you having? I’m drinking some Dolly Parton Chardonnay because R.I.P.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a good bottle though.
What are you ladies drinking? Yeah, we’re having um some gin and toxics, if you will. My favorite. Yeah. How is that different from a gin and tonic? Well, it’s not really. We just changed the name. Did you guys get some lime in there? It’s my favorite part. Oh, I like extra lime.
Yeah, me too. Love a lime. Love a lime slice. Love a little extra lime slice. Cheers.
And let’s get into it. Disclaimer. The views, opinions, and commentary expressed on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not represent the view or opinions of our employers, organizations, or professional affiliations.
We have kind of another case study today. Okay. Tonight’s case begins on February 19th, 1994. Our patient is a 31-year-old woman with terminal cervical cancer. For several days, she’s been experiencing nausea and vomiting, but on this particular day, things got significantly worse. She developed shortness of breath and heart palpitations, so her boyfriend, Johnny Estrada, becomes concerned enough to call 911. By the time she arrives at Riverside General Hospital, she’s critically ill, barely conscious, and disoriented. She’s tachycardic and she’s having chainstokes respirations. Oh God. All right. What are Chain Stokes respirations for those who don’t know? That’s so creepy. Thank you for that demonstration. But that’s exactly what it is. Yeah.
But fast brats with periods of apnea.
Irregular. Yep. Yep. Given only what we know right now, that we have this terminal cancer patient with several days of vomiting who’s now altered, tachycardic, dyspnec, and has an abnormal respirator pattern. What are you guys worried about?
Pericardial effusion and spread of cancer.
Yeah. The patient’s mess. Let’s look for an effusion because there’s always fluid. She’s hypoxic because Shane Stokes is either hypoxic or like a neurological injury. But I would be getting an echo.
I’d be getting has she had any any like surgeries for debulking of tumors or anything? Not that we know of and not that contribute to this case.
Also, I would be getting an X-ray and let’s just do, you know, our C B C BMP. Let’s get some coags since there’s always some sort of coagulopathy that’s happening in cancer patients, right?
Yeah. And how about an ABG? She’s gotta be an ABG for those who don’t know, arterial blood gas. Yep, it’s gonna look at the pH, the pH of the blood. So I think probably, yeah, again. So some sort of metabolic derangement. Yeah. I agree. Probably some some organ failure related to, you know, Mets. So maybe some renal failure, some liver failure, maybe an infection, so some sepsis. Uh, and then, you know, Kate, you said it’s almost always pulmonary as well when they’re chain stoking. And, you know, we know, as you said, people get coagulopathic with cancer. So did she have like a pulmonary embolism, a large plot in her lung, anything like that? So before there’s much time for the ER team to figure it out, Gloria goes into cardiac arrest. Oh gosh. The team begins resuscitation, she is intubated, she is defibrillated for an irregular heart rhythm. And then that’s when the case takes its first very strange turn. Wait, okay, so she was in a shockable rhythm then. Yes, I nowhere could I see whether it was like V fib or VTAC, but everywhere, all of the sources said she was defibrillated.
Interesting, because I would think if she maybe had like a clot or something, it would be like a PEA.
Like yeah. If the oxygen, the the breathing is driving her uh instability, yeah, that you would think it would be like pulsus electrical activity, which is not a shockable rhythm, despite what you may see on television, right? Yes, yes. So she gets intubated and she vomits, which okay, this happens. We see it, right? Yep, yep. But the respiratory therapist notices a fruity garlic-like odor coming from her mouth. Ketones? Yeah. But would we call ketones garlic? Garlic? No. I would call that fruity.
Yeah, fruity.
And when they go to defibrillate her and they expose her chest, they note that her skin is oily almost as though it has a sheen to it. Hold on, wait.
I’m just thinking, like, would they just sniff in up her mouth?
Well, it must have been so potent that I was just gonna say it had to have been stanky. I mean, let’s be real. How many times has a patient’s mouth been opened for them to put a breathing tube in and the whole room can smell it, right? Especially if very real. Especially if someone’s been like mouth breathing, like in distress. Yeah, I’ll give you that. I’ll give you that. But yeah, usually, I mean, I get fruity fruity breath is sort of a text uh uh textbook DKA. Yeah, like someone with uncontrolled blood sugar, very high blood sugar. But garlic. But I’ve I can’t think of anything that would just that would cause a garlicky smell beyond eating garlic. Eating garlic, yeah. And then do you can you guys think of anything that would cause this like oily skin? Besides having soaked in a bath with oils?
I don’t know. Did she put something on her skin? Sweat glands. That’s uh like sebaceous. Are you talking about are you thinking about sebaceous glands?
Common, like on the oil, just like releasing okay. So you just think she’s like sweaty. Well, more than sweaty, but yeah, maybe I don’t know. Yeah, I think sometimes people’s sweat is weird, yeah.
And I think people do have weird like sweat gland syndromes, but I don’t feel like you often just see that like on their chest. Usually it’s like they had issues like in their armpits or whatever, right? Yeah, they’re they’re more like heated place, not not so much on the chest. That feels weird, but you’re right that like maybe some lotion, maybe something she applied something to her chest. Okay, what’s it uh emulsifier?
Okay, she rubbing some type of like chemical on her body to cure cancer, yeah.
That’s what I’m thinking, or like taking a supplement as an RN starts an IV and draws Gloria’s blood, she says she smelled ammonia, windex, and then something even stranger happens. When she looks at the blood sample in the tube, there are white crystals in the blood sample. Oh god. What has this lady been injecting? So this is documented by the nurse and also corroborated by a medicine resident and an attending physician.
Okay, so when I think about crystals in the blood, I think about precipitation. We because we know what precipitation is, right? When you mix something like two liquids, yeah, chemical, it creates yeah, a chemical reaction and creates that’s a solid solid within the liquid that’s called precipitation.
What is she mixing in her blood that’s we’ve all seen a lot of blood specimens, yes, right, in our time. Have you ever seen crystals?
No, not in a blood sample, but do you think something was in her blood that mixed with the chemical in the tube that created precipitation?
Maybe because some of the two the tubes have like additive space to it. It was like a bad tube or something, and then the nurse who drew the blood faints. Oh god, oh god, this lady’s been putting something in her body. So I mean, at first I’m like, you know, is this is someone just not up for a code today? You know, it’s it’s all just a little too much for them. Well, what what smells like ammonia? Well, so usually it would be cleaners, like you said, you said Windex, right? So wind blas thingers, rodent urine breaks down into ammonia. So whatever you when you smell like rat pee or something. Oh god. Um, and then intense exercise or low carb, high protein diets can cause your sweat or breath to carry an ammonia scent. That makes sense because protein breaks down into ammonia. Okay, so I’m like, okay, so maybe this nurse wasn’t feeling well, maybe this was all just like too too intense, but then that medicine resident who was next to her and verified the the particulate in the blood sample, she said, I feel really dizzy. She got really nauseated. She walked out to the nurse’s station, and as she gets to the nurse’s station, she passes out. What?
What could you be exposed to that would make you I mean, unless she was like covered in some sort of chemical that’s gonna chloroform? Doesn’t chloroform, you breathe it in, you pass out. That’s what I was thinking.
Yeah, yeah, but why would she have covered herself and I don’t know that’s weird? She’s I’m like, is this lady a terrorist?
I’m thinking weird vitamins and mineral exposure.
Yeah, I mean, I think we had we definitely see a lot of patients who are taking weird supplements who have crazy reactions, right? Yeah, yeah. Because I think we talked about this in the big pharma episode that I think a lot of people think like, I don’t want to take medicine, I don’t want to be on medicine, but it’s fine if I take these 24 supplements because they think their supplements are not prescribed, they’re benign, and really we see these crazy reactions with them, specific, especially if you’re taking multiple. So, okay, you think she’s taking something and it’s causing some kind of weird reaction. Okay. That’s a good yeah, maybe I’m not sure. I mean, or there could be maybe we’re just like blaming the patient, but maybe there’s some other kind of like toxic or environmental exposure happening to the ER, right? Or her home. Okay, yeah, okay. Or maybe the nurse and the med medical resident just didn’t get lunch that day. I don’t know. Blood sugar. Okay. Well, the situation escalates rapidly. Oh gosh. We end up with 23 people in the emergency room who have symptoms within 30 minutes of contact with this patient. So these symptoms include dizziness, headache, respiratory irritation, tearing, nausea, and vomiting. And many of them had to be hospitalized. Sounds like a gas. So then, as a result of all of these people getting sick, the ER is evacuated. Oh, God. With the exception of a handful of staff who are wearing protective equipment and they remain behind and they are still coding Gloria, right? So still coding? She hasn’t been resuscitated. She has not been resuscitated. How long has this been happening? They code her for 35 minutes. Okay. And does she achieve ROSC? She does not achieve Rosk, and she is ultimately pronounced dead. Okay. No return of spontaneous circulation. Okay. And in the meantime, though, the whole ER has is moving outside and they’re like taking care of patients in the ER parking lot. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Healthcare workers are heroes. That’s all. Where was this again? This is in California, Riverside, California. Wow. The medical resident I told you about, the second one who like fainted, she ended up spending two weeks at intensive care with hepatitis and avascular necrosis.
Oh my god. What?
Yeah. So you said your first theory was anthrax, right? Oh yeah, right? Colleen. I said anthrax. It sounds like a little quick for anthrax. Anthrax is whether it’s inhaled or contracted through the skin, it’s usually one to seven days. Inhalation can take up to 60 days for symptoms. And you get mild food-like symptoms like fever, muss-like, and cough, and then you get severe breathing problems. You might also get like rashes or blisters on your skin. So it doesn’t really sound like anthrax, but it does seem like the way it’s being contracted feels very similar, right? Yeah. Like airborne or lady radiate, like, did she have like radiation?
Was she super radiated? And she’s she like was she actually like the radiate radiation was coming from her and exposing everyone to radiation?
Early signs, you get nausea, vomiting, headache, diarrhea. Okay. Then people feel better, and then they get bone marrow failure, GI distress, neurologic damage, fever, internal bleeding, fatigue. Uh, but how long does that take? It says usually it takes a couple of weeks. So that’s a no. No.
Uh that’s leaking poison. What what color was she?
Like, was she was her skin like orange? Was she like green? Like, what was I don’t know, but I have to assume, given that we have all these details about the odor, the sheen, the breath, the the blood, the crystals and the blood. Yeah, that if it was something like she was orange or she was blue or she was yellow, that we would have heard about that, right?
I just feel like her liver can’t be normal.
No, nothing’s normal, clearly. So after Gloria is declared dead, her body is isolated and it is transferred into an airtight container. Uh-huh. An autopsy is performed using strict hazardous material precautions, but they find no evidence of toxic, volatile, or hazardous vapors detected in association with Gloria’s tissues, bodily fluids, or the ER air samples. Yes, Colleen. Oh does she have family that’s also been presenting similar? No, she has family, but no one else that has any of these symptoms. You know who else didn’t have any of these symptoms? Who? The people who transported her in the ambulance. Oh, something else is causing this. Is she just the is she just a variable?
Is she like where where we thought it was coming from, but really it’s like they ate the ER add from lunch?
All right. Well, I think you kind of covered some of the the differentials here, okay? The doctors and nurses are getting sick. Some of them are sick enough to be hospitalized. They’re describing odors and visible abnormalities in the patient’s blood, but there’s no toxic chemical you’d expect to explain it. So kind of the general theories are that there is something originating from Gloria, which you hit on, maybe a medication, a home, a remedy, metabolic product, or chemical reaction occurring within or around her body, right? So they were hallucinating when they saw stuff in her blood. At least three had a shared hallucination. Maybe. I mean, last week we talked about a shared psychosis.
Yeah, you were like, it’s a psychosis. Yeah, you believe that, Megan. So I don’t don’t say like, oh, shared hallucinations.
I really couldn’t decide what to believe last time. I will say though, when you kept saying they’re trading sourdough, I was like, they’re making sourdough, but you’re right, it would be in the wheat, which would be transported. Other theory is that there’s something originated in the hospital, like you said. So maybe they’re blaming her, but it’s something else, right? Because it wasn’t in the EMT. Family didn’t experience this. So maybe some kind of chemical contaminated IV solution or environmental exposure. Yep. Are there multiple things happening at once and it’s just sort of like a perfect storm, right? Like her illness explains some findings, but there’s something else happening. Or was this just a psychogenic response in response to an extremely stressful event? But the the resident had avascular necrosis and hepatitis. No, two weeks in the ICU? You guys might be surprised to learn that given that the majority of these patients were women, the official story and what many assumed at the time was that this was another mass psychogenic illness. I’m tired of people blaming women. So two scientists from California’s Department of Health and Human Services interviewed 34 staff who’d worked in the ER that night. They noted that those within two feet of Gloria were more likely to fall ill, and nearly all of those affected were women. People who had skipped it that evening rather than those who had a full stomach were also more likely to have developed symptoms, which could be either they were processing something quicker, right? Or it could be what Kate said, maybe they’re all just hypoglycemic. You know, I don’t know. They released a report that the incident was due to mass psychogenic illness or mass hysteria, but this was an unacceptable answer to people who were hospitalized with organ dysfunction. Yes. And Julie Gorczynski in particular, who spent two weeks in the ICU, the medical resident, she filed a six million dollar lawsuit against the hospital and coroner’s office. So the forensic science center at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, they’re called in for like a second opinion. Okay. For her. So you guys aren’t buying psychogenic? No, not one bit.
No. Unless shrooms are involved. Could they be exposed to shrooms? Okay. I was thinking shrooms too. Yeah. I mean, I think well, mold. Could they be exposed to mold that could be presenting like a shrooms, like environmental mold?
I mean, I think we talked about how a lot of like psychogenic illnesses, it’s not the patient faking it. It is a physical manifestation, right? Something else. But you don’t usually see multi-organ failure and cardiac arrest from that, right? You might have you might have like what they used to call pseudo-seizures, which is not an acceptable term now, but like you might have like seizure activity with a normal EEG or something, but you’re not gonna be your heart is not gonna stop, you’re not gonna be in V fib, VTAC, you’re not gonna be in organ failure. So yeah, I don’t know if I really if I believe I think psychogenic illness is not an option for me. No. So the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Forensic Science Center became involved and they identified several substances in Ramirez’s samples. So this gets a little sciencey, Kate. This is gonna be so up your alley. Okay. There was an amine, a derivative of ammonia that may have formed as her body broke down Tegan, which was an anti-nausea medicine. And so that might explain the ammonia odor. They also found nicotinamide, which is a B vitamin that is sometimes mixed into illegal drugs like meth and can cause euphoria. But they couldn’t figure out like why would she have been taking nicotinamide? Right. Because everyone’s like, she doesn’t take drugs, she’s not doing drugs, right? And her and the rest of her talk screen was normal, was clear. Okay. They also determined that she had been taking a lot of Tylol and codeine, which they said that could have helped, like contributed to liver liver damage. But none of these findings really explain what happened. Okay. They found something much more interesting. What they found was DMSO2. So they were like, well, you know, DMS-04, that’s toxic, but how did we get from O2 to O4? And how did she get O2 in her body? Oh, like a chemical reaction that’s like this. Yes. They theorized the DMSO2 was a product of DMSO, and then they theorized that DMSO2 converted to DMS-O4, and that’s what caused her illness, but that her toxicity, I guess. But the DMSO2 is what was found in her in her blood. This all starts with DMSO, which is dimethyl sulfoxide, which is a liquid solvent derived from wood pulp that is found in hardware stores. It used to be used topically for pain as well as anxiety. Other indications included treatment of pain related to interstitial cystitis, antibacterial agents, cervical cancer treatment, and chemotherapy IV infiltration. But the rise of this potential water drug was stopped suddenly when animal tests showed that prolonged exposure to DMSO altered the lens of the eye. The FDA ceased clinical trials of the drug in 1965, though in 1978 approved a 50% solution of DMSO as a treatment for interstitial cystitis. So for the most part, rarely this could be used for like painful urinary tract lesions, but otherwise it’s it’s been eliminated, not allowed, not used medically anymore. People were still buying 99% DMSO at the hardware store. It’s like a liquid solvent. So in 1980, the FDA had Actually, issued a warning to physicians to counsel their patients that, like, you shouldn’t go to the hardware store, buy this, and use this to treat your pain and anxiety. Well, this is a theory. But people who were using who were using the DMSO to treat their pain and anxiety would report a garlic-like taste and also a slick sheen on your skin. DMSO is renally excreted. So if she’s in renal failure for something else, it could cause it to accumulate in her body and she would have higher than normal levels.
She was totally doing this. Okay.
But here’s the problem. This all sounds like it’s this all setting up to be a good story. But just wait until I explain how they theorized this reaction occurred.
Okay, so they’re saying that she actually was doing this or that what she was doing was creating this in her body.
We have no proof that she took DMSO and her family says she didn’t take DMSO. But this is what the scientists, when they’re like, you guys didn’t like that psychogenic illness theory. Here’s our scientific theory. Okay. But now how do we get from DMSO to DMSO4? She was doing a couple of yeah, add some O’s. She was doing some ozone treatments. Whippets? No. So again, if you think about because ozone is O3.
You guys know that, right? It’s ozone, is that ozone is three oxygens. That’s why I don’t know what ozone is.
Like the ozone layer? Yeah.
Oh, oh, sorry. I thought I thought it was like a drug.
Yeah.
Well, actually, when you said when you said ozone, I thought you were talking about some sort of like, yeah, like hyperbaric oxygen situation. Yeah, you mean so like ozone. You said DNSO, which is one oxygen. Yeah.
And then how does it get to DMSO4? You add three oxygens. See, why do you guys think you get it? I’m too smart. I didn’t know that joke at all.
So it came back. You think the aliens abducted? No, now it’s like there’s like it’s there’s like health trends that are like they’re like do the ozone, like there’s like oxygen bars, and you like you do the ozone. Okay, okay. I got you. I got you. Yeah. So this is a treatment people do. I thought you were about to take this down a whole alien abduction angle. No. She was abducted, went to space.
I was I was thinking still along the lines of like, what are some alternate treatments for cancer?
No, I don’t understand that. DMSO4 is a potential chemical warfare agent. When inhaled or absorbed through the skin, it causes dizziness, headache, convulsions, coma, lung injury, and bradycardia. Of the 20 types of symptoms reported by the staff, from the fainting to the convulsions to Gorczynski’s hepatitis, only one, nausea and vomiting, is not a symptom of dimethyl sulfate exposure. So they’re like, this DMS-04 is gonna would explain this. But again, how did we get to the DMS04? So they theorized that when she arrested, she shows up to the ER, they first thing they do is her ABCs, they put her on oxygen. Okay, and somehow this DMS now gets that extra oxygen and becomes DMSO2. Okay. But DMSO here, I was thinking, okay, but now we gotta get from DMS O2 to DMS O4. Uh-huh.
Yeah, we’re gonna go to three next.
No, we’re the next, well, yes, but I guess because of the the IV fluids, the H2O. That’s not not even IV fluids. I was like, whoa, hold up. What could they give her that will give her another O? Maybe not, maybe not what they gave her, maybe what they did to her. Maybe when they defibrillated her, the electrical current split the DMSO2 molecules, which rearranged with natural sulfates in her system, to create DMSO4. Does that happen? Interesting. Well they were unable to make it happen in a lab. Okay, well, this that seems like a stretch. But this is the theory, the theoretical solution that they propose. Uh-huh. Yep. Again, nobody could demonstrate this actually happened. The proposed mechanism was theoretical and it has never been reproduced. But to believe either, you have to assume she was doing it. You have to assume she was doing DMSO, which is like the first thing, which again, her family disclaims she lists on.
You know what, you know what I have to say to that? You know what House would have to say it to that, Dr. House?
Everyone lies. Everybody lies.
That’s right.
You have to be that you have to be in agony to want to start using something from the hardware store. DSMO.
Okay. The head of the lab said, hey, hey, hey, we never said this is what happened. Just that people should look into it. Okay. You guys believe that this that she did this DMSO and that that’s fine. So she could have done it, period. Done, would maybe explain again, like the odors. Again, doesn’t explain the spread, right? And the symptoms unless it’s DMS-04. And you believe that oxygen supplementation and defibrillation got her from DMS-0 to DMS-04? No. How many times did they and then and then they were unable to do that to replicate that in a lab? No, I don’t believe that. I know. Keep the old literally the only other idea was that it was like caused by a psychogenist’s. Well, let me tell you the third theory. So now we get a little conspiratorial here. Okay. Okay. There is another proposed culprit, methylamine. You can have an ammonia-like odor. Uh-huh. It is associated with methamphetamine production. Ooh. In 1997, New Times LA reportedly published a dramatically different explanation. New Times LA, by the way, no longer exists. Okay. Okay. All right. They claimed that Riverside County was a major center for methamphetamine manufacturing and distribution, and that hospital employees had been stealing methylamine and selling it to methamphetamine manufacturers. Methylamine’s in the hospital.
Oh, we get in the pharmacy.
And anesthesia and analgesics. Yeah. Okay. So the theory is that hospital employees were smuggling this out to sell to meth cookers. So they have like their own side hustle going. Yeah. And but like, but how would they get this out of the hospital? Because it turns to gas very quickly when exposed to oxygen. Oh, okay. So they were putting it in DMSO4. They were putting it in IV bags. This is allegedly putting it in IV bags and then transporting the IV bags out of the hospital. Oh, but somebody gave her one. And maybe there was a mistake and they hung the bag or the bag had remnants in it or something. And again, now this is a whole crazy theory that was proposed. She had no meth in her system. She had no evidence of this methylamine. But again, they were like, well, when exposed to oxygen, it disappears. So it wouldn’t be in her autopsy. So this was a seventh crazy theory. Was there this underground meth business happening? And now the family has their own theory. And I think a lot of this stems from things feel very conspiratorial from their standpoint. Yeah. Because it took 10 weeks for them to get her body back. So by the time they got her body back from these two autopsies, they the body had significantly decomposed. They hired their own pathologist, Dr. Richard Fukamoto, to perform another autopsy. Is that the one that’s always in trouble for messing up the I don’t know. So when he got in there to do his autopsy, the organs were reportedly contaminated with fecal matter or missing. The heart was missing. What? And and that blood sample that had particulate in it, missing, gone. No one has ever seen it again. So everyone’s like, this like poor handling of the body makes us really suspicious that there was something else going on and there’s some kind of cover-up, right? That there’s some kind of investigation cover-up. And when they went back in 1989, the hospital was cited for algae and mold-related sanitation issues and cross-contamination issues. And uh prior to this, there was some like back sipe and plumbing issue, failing metylation systems and recurring sewer gas backups. So the family was like, you have this history of toxic gas and plumbing leaks. All of the evidence from our loved one is missing, right? For her autopsy. Did you guys mess up? Like that’s what happened to her, was like, because they claim, you know, she wouldn’t have died if she hadn’t gone to the hospital. Although I would argue she was had terminal cervical cancer. Those are the theories, like psychogenic, the DMSO to DMSO4. Was there some kind of underground meth business going on? Or was the hospital covering up because the hospital had some sort of environmental toxin that made everyone sick? What do you guys think? But only like 24 people got sick that were close to her. Yeah, the majority were within uh do I say two feet? Yeah.
I don’t think it’s hospital environmental exposure.
Yeah, I feel like there would have been a second patient with similar, you know what I mean? Like I don’t know. I kind of buy the DMSO4 coming from her.
It looks accessible. Well, I mean, DS DMSO seems, I mean, I I buy that she was doing that.
Yeah, I mean, I think it definitely makes sense. We see weird, like I said, supplementation reactions. The DMSO ingestion makes sense. I can see the family not wanting to be like, are you you’re saying she did also? I mean, like the this lady died, you don’t even get to mourn your loved one because it’s like she died, and also she made 23 people sick. Right. And it’s like she has a nickname is like becomes a science project. You can’t even like let her rest in peace. She has a nickname, the toxic lady. That’s like the story. The story of Gloria Remair is a toxic lady. And so maybe they’re like, I don’t like that this is her reputation. And we do not believe that she would put any kind of holistic, non-prescribed treatment on her body that could have caused this. But I the defibrillation splitting and causing the DMSO4. I mean, what we defibrillate patients all the time, right? And they don’t have weird chemical reactions because their atoms are not excited.
Yeah, I don’t know if I believe that part. I think she was like emitting something that caused people to be sick. I think she was definitely rubbing DMSO on her body. I definitely think she was doing that, but I don’t think I also don’t understand how you just split from two to four, like two to four. That’s not how it works. There actually has to be like a reaction. So I don’t believe that.
Her official cause of death was kidney failure related to cancer.
I just yeah, I think she was definitely using the chemical for pain. Okay. That’s the only thing that makes because if it was mold, how do you explain the DMSO2?
Well, you could say maybe she was using this cream, and that’s what caused the garlicky breath. Garlicky breath and the sheet.
But she did have DMSO2. So what about what else would have gotten her to two other than one?
Well, is DMSO4 a stable or unstable molecule? Is it looking for more stability? Because if it’s looking for more stability, it’s gonna find something to help it become more stable.
DMSO4 is stable under normal room temperatures and pressures, but reacts and decomposes easily when exposed to water, heat, or strong chemicals. If you apply heat to it, it’s going to react.
So if you’re if it’s stable under room temperature, which is 70 degrees, and then you put it on your body, which is 98 degrees, it’s it’s more likely to react.
So you’re saying then that science makes sense to you from that standpoint. That she had uh been using it. I just think I like my evidence, and if it can’t be reproduced in a lab, I’m not buying it.
Well, I don’t know how to go about with DMSO4. I don’t think that. I don’t know if I believe that.
What I’m saying is I think she could be rubbing DMSO and it could become DMSO2 in her body from being being destabilized with and that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s why everybody got sick.
Like two separate things.
Yeah, I I think it could be like she was doing that, but that doesn’t mean that that’s what caused everyone else around her to get sick. So you are you saying you think it’s like a psychogenic illness again?
No, no. What do you think? The DMS-04 story, again, even just like it converting DMS-04 being this toxin that radiates everything fits. They’re saying this is every single symptom. It explains the odor, it explains the sheen. But I need someone to give me a better explanation of how that conversion happened because I don’t believe that defibrillation is what got us from DMS02 to DMS-04. But I feel like if it was, I feel like the methane feels like a real jump. I feel like if it was like a mold or a toxin or a gas, why were all these people within two feet of the patient? And why didn’t it like was it never an issue before or after, unless they secretly, I mean, like I feel like the ER would know if they were like shut down. Yeah, I don’t believe the mold. I don’t believe the the meth. I think she was toxic. And I don’t think that what like the family said if she hadn’t come to the yard, she wouldn’t have died. So whatever happened, they believe happened in the ER. I don’t believe that either. No, me dying. But it is interesting also that she all they did in the in the ambulance was add oxygen, right? Supplement her with oxygen, and then and none of the none of the EMTs got sick. And then they defibrillate her in the yard, and all the people at the feet of her are sick. Yeah, that is interesting. I don’t know. Real medical mystery.
Are you saying when they defibed her and the sheen on her body, the sheen is what became DMSO4? In 1994, did they have the paddles still?
Was it paddles or pads? I think it was paddles. I’m sure it was paddles. In ER, it was always paddles, but you know what? It’s always paddles on TV now, too. Yeah. Yeah, the nobody uses paddles. Defibrillators transitioned from handheld metal paddles to self-adhesive stick-on pads between the late 70s and early 90s. So they should have already been stick-on at this point. Kate, I gotta say, the whole time, I’ve not been thinking of the sheen as being, I’ve been thinking about something in her blood.
Yeah, I didn’t think of the sheen either.
But it may be that makes it more sense. If something happened on the sheen, that’s much more exposed to the air. But also, you when you have a wet patient and you’re defibrillating, you gotta wipe them down. She said it was a sheen, right?
Like almost like what I’m thinking of is like I don’t know, like an emulsification, like like oil.
I think if it’s enough, if it’s enough that you’re like, I noticed it, unless you’re just saying it’s just like shiny skin. Right. Good questions. We’re all going with DMS04, but but don’t there’s no real questions.
Yeah. Okay, hold on. Now I’m thinking, could you get DSMO4 from the sheen on her skin plus everything in the air with the shock? I don’t know. It seems like it’s not rough replicable, so I don’t know. You know what I’m talking about? Yeah. And how do they replicate the study? I guess that’s my question. So we we agree that she’s toxic. We agree we have no idea why.
We agree that her family is lying because everybody not lying in in denial, in denial, or they might not know she was using it. Right, because everybody lies per Dr.
Gregory House. Yeah. That’s an that is a that’s a real head scratcher right there, Maggie.
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