Speaker: 00:00
We’re using our medical background to focus on the strange, baffling, and downright unsettling world of medical mysteries.

Speaker 2: 00:07
We’re gonna dig into unusual cases, diagnostic puzzles, unexplained symptoms, and medical misadventures.

Speaker 1: 00:16
Our first three seasons covered a little bit of everything, including crime, conspiracy, mystery, and the occasional rabbit hole we probably shouldn’t have gone down.

Speaker: 00:24
Those episodes aren’t going anywhere, so the archives remain open for anyone who likes their mysteries, a little more broad spectrum.

Speaker 1: 00:32
But from season four on, the prescription is different. More medicine, more mysteries, more questions. So grab a drink, hit the follow, and tune in every Tuesday for a new episode.

Speaker 2: 01:03
This week, on our Throwback Thursday episode, it’s all about JFK’s assassination and the questions that persist over six decades later. In this episode, we dove into one of the most famous mysteries in American history. From Lee Harvey Oswald and the Warren Commission to the single bullet theory and the infamous Zapruder film, and many theories about who may have been involved. But we also looked at the case through our healthcare lens, examining JFK’s wounds, the medical treatment he received at Parkland Hospital, the autopsy, the forensic evidence that has become central to the debate. What do the medical and physical evidence actually tell us? And where do the unanswered questions leave room for conspiracy theories? Grab your drink and join us as we revisit one of the biggest conspiracy rabbit holes in history.

Speaker: 02:11
November 22nd, 1963, the president and vice president are on a campaign tour through Texas in preparation for the 1964 re-election. Secret Service was told to back off so that the president seemed more approachable. While riding in a convertible with his wife Jackie, Texas Governor John Connolly, and Connolly’s wife Nellie, they departed Love Field. The route had been published in the newspaper, and so thousands of residents had gathered along the streets as the motorcade proceeded through the streets of downtown Dallas. As it passed through Dealy Plaza at around 12 30 p.m., shots rang out from the crowd. The number of shots and originating location are up for debate, but in the end, Governor Connolly and President Kennedy were shot, with Kennedy being pronounced dead approximately 30 minutes later at nearby Parkland Hospital. Approximately 45 minutes later, Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested. The 24-year-old Marine veteran and employee at the Texas School Book Depository was accused of shooting and killing police officer J.D. Tibbet with a different gun before hiding out in a movie theater. Within two hours of JFK’s murder, Oswald was in police custody and accused of both murders. Unfortunately, he was shot while being escorted by police officers 48 hours later. The gunman of his murder was identified as Jack Ruby, a local club owner with mob connections. The following day, Kennedy is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. But was this all tied up just a little too neatly? Does the evidence match the public story? Was JFK really assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone? Or is there more to the story that has been covered up? I would say I’ve watched a lot of documentaries and read a lot on this. If I was gonna recommend maybe two to anyone at home, this would be one. Well, after you listen to this podcast, I would recommend JFK What the Doctors Saw, which is available on Paramount Plus. Okay. So I’m gonna start with a timeline of events. I think that’s good. Yeah. Okay. So as I mentioned, the route of the parade was published like two to three days prior in the newspaper. So thousands of people knew the plan and were lining the street. But again, as I mentioned in my introduction, he was kind of getting teed up for re-election. That’s like part of his re-election campaign trial. Okay. It was kind of like a campaign stop. And so they were gonna do this motorcade, and he again he wanted to be like approachable, close to people, and so he was like, give me some space. Yeah. They’re in the convertibles. Apparently, there were supposed to be like hard tops on these cars, and they took them off because the weather was so nice.

Speaker 2: 04:27
Do they normally announce the routes that the president’s gonna take for things like that?

Speaker 1: 04:32
Oh, they’re whole itineraries. Yeah. But now I don’t think they’re they’re allowed to like be in convertible.

Speaker: 04:38
Yeah, I don’t think they’re riding on a conval with no secret space.

Speaker 2: 04:40
Well, yeah, in the inauguration parade, some parts he walks, and then most of the time he’s in like a bulletproof limo.

Speaker: 04:47
So 11:35 a.m., uh-huh, Air Force Two arrives at Love Field in Dallas. Three minutes later at 11:38, Air Force One arrives. The Kennedys and the Connollys disembark and they greet the Johnsons, because Lyndamie Johnson’s vice president, right? The Kennedys are are seen, you’ve seen this video where they’re shaking hands with all the people, and Jackie O gets the rose bouquet of roses and they’re interacting with the crowd. 11:55 a.m. The motorcade departs from Lovefield in Dallas for a 10-mile trip through downtown. 12 30 p.m., shots are fired. We’ll talk about the sequence events, but apparently it’s uh it sounds like initially he kind of he’s driving along, he kind of goes behind the sign on the video, and when he comes out, he’s clasping his neck neck saying, I’m shot. And she’s kind of like trying to help him. And then we see this second shot where his head flies back, brain matter flies, she’s climbing over the car trying to collect pieces of his brain. Oh my gosh. And then the the driver races 80 miles per hour or 130 kilometers an hour for our European listeners, the four miles to Parkland Memorial Hospital, because this was the closest hospital. It was leveled one trauma center for the area, and they cared for about three gunshot wounds a day. And I think we discussed previously, didn’t you say Bourbon Boy said that like when you go into a town with these higher ups, you already know, like if something happens, this is where we’re gonna go, right? Like this hot we we you already have a hospital in mind. Oh, yeah. They always know, yeah. So Parkland is the big trauma center, it’s four miles away. So they race, they get him there within uh six minutes. So already we’re doing way better than Princess Dye. Princess Dye. Yeah. So 1236, they arrive at Parkland and they are working on him. So they’re putting lines in him, they’re trying to get an airway, they can’t get an airway. The nurses are just like letting police and secret service and all these people back. So there’s just like, you know, dozens of people in this trauma bay. And everyone says that Jackie was like very in control. They thought that she looked like maybe she had like been prepared for this. Like she was really like a political wife, and like they had prepared her, like, you know, what her what her role was, and if anything ever happened to J JFK. So she was like very together. Yes. And Parkland Hospital ER physicians noted an entry wound to the front of the neck, the size of the dime, just above his collar or tie. And so they assumed this is very small. They right off the bat were like, that looks like an entrance wound. So again, they’re unable to get an airway. How many shots were there? Well, well, oh, that I remember this remains a mystery. Oh. So they noted that he had this little wound. So all of the doctors who saw him first at Parkland across the board were like, Oh yeah, he got shot in the neck. That was his entry wound. So they couldn’t get an airway in him, but this entry wound is right by his trachea. So they actually widened it and made it the tracheostomy. Right. So they made an incision over the bullet hole in order to place an airway. So now he’s got a central line, he’s got his tracheostomy, they’re covering all of the ABCs. And then they look down, these doctors, these like med students look down and they see that he literally because he’s on his back while they’re working on him, he literally has chunks of brain falling out the back of his head onto the ground. Yeah. This is really important to note because later on people try to claim that there’s like no wound to the back of his head. Oh, but like literally you can see these shots. It’s like his the whole back of his head is missing, and there’s just like chunks of- I feel like you could see it in the video. Yeah. Like half half his head is gone. Which again gets like this whole the fact that there’s like even conversations here about what it’s just kind of wild. Yes. It’s conspiracy theories and the cover-up that happened. So they’re like working on him, and then they notice that like this man doesn’t even have half a brain. So he probably is not alive, as you pointed out.

Speaker 2: 08:15
He only had a brain.

Speaker: 08:16
Um, so yes, he’s actually he’s clearly dead, but this is the president. So like you got to do everything. Right. Right. And again, I think I told you guys when I watched the doctor documentary, the one guy who was like, I was a fourth-year med student, and they said, You get the crash cart. And I ran over and I’m thinking, I’m about to save the president. There’s no way. And he’s like, literally, all I did was get the crash cart. And I feel like that’s like every code situation, right? Somebody who’s like, I have the LR, you know? You know, I have the epistle. So when this fourth year med student goes and gets the crash cart and they hook him up and then they finally realize after he’s been lined and he’s an asystole.

Speaker 2: 08:49
Wait, it took him that long to get him on an EKG or whatever, you know what I mean?

Speaker: 08:53
Like, I don’t know, I just think they were all at once.

Speaker 2: 08:55
I’m sure it was happening.

Speaker: 08:57
Yeah, you’re right. Yeah. Chaos. But again, everyone kind of decides all these people who are in the room are like, yep, this cause of death was probably that.

Speaker 2: 09:04
Who called it?

Speaker: 09:04
So me, so again, this is like 1236 is when he arrived at Parkland, and everyone now will it’s pretty unanimous for like he was dead on arrival. Oh, yeah. But like you had to do things, okay? It sounds like the neurosurgeon about 1250 is when they’ve like got him on the monitor, he’s asystolic. So that’s like 14 minutes, but he’s been lined and traked. The at twelve about 1250, the surgeon is like, he’s gone. But Jackie doesn’t want to be declared dead because she wants him to get his last rites. So the actual time of death that is a Catholic. Yeah, that is on the death certificate, and the actual like legal time of death is one o’clock. Okay. But he was really declared 1250 and was probably dead at like 12 30. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1: 09:42
I mean, how long can you live with your brain falling out of your head? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 09:46
As long as your brain stems intact, your body will keep bodying. And your support just aren’t there.

Speaker: 09:52
Again, one o’clock is declared the time of death so that so that the staff you can get him to get his last rights. And also Lyndon Mee Johnson is kind of concerned, like, we don’t know what’s happening here. What if what if there’s an international conspiracy and they’re gonna take us all out and like ruin democracy, right? So he’s like, I need time to get to Air Force One. Let me leave before you declare and announce it. So that’s what happens. These two priests come in, they give the last rights. Jackie exchanges their wedding rings, kisses his foot, and said, I love you, Jack. And that’s it. And again, she was only 34 years old. Just gosh. Wild. His personal physician. You asked who declared it?

Speaker 2: 10:26
His personal physician.

Speaker: 10:27
His personal physician, Admiral George Berkeley. Wow. We’re gonna hear about him later. Oh, he’s part of it? Everyone’s part of it. So again, meanwhile, I said, while this is all happening, we’ve got this side Lee Harvey Oswald story happening, right? So like 12 45, they’re like, all cops start looking for a suspect. 1.04 p.m., this housekeeper, because Lee Harvey Oswald was living in this rooming house in Dallas. Uh, this housekeeper claims that she saw him leaving the rooming house and approaching a bus stop. And then at 111, JD Tippett, who’s a police officer who again is looking for the suspect, he thinks he sees the suspect. He pulls over and he approaches a man who they claim to be Lee Harvey Oswald. At 1.15 p.m., Lee Harvey Oswald shoots allegedly, again, if you believe this official story, Lee Harvey Oswald shoots him four times with a handgun, not the same gun that killed JFK, a different handgun. True. And then ducks into a movie theater. Police surround this movie theater and take down Lee Harvey Oswald, and he’s arrested initially for the murder of JD Tippett, this police officer. Now, there are a lot of witness reports that have come out that have been like, I saw two people shoot that officer, or like someone was like, couldn’t identify from a lineup. So this whole story is skeptical. That’s really what we’re about to talk about, right? But that’s just allegedly what was happening while everyone’s working on JFK. So 1.26 p.m., the Johnsons leave for Air Force One. Ladybird reports seeing them, watching them like lowering the flags to half mass, but it’s not been officially announced yet that he’s dead. At 1.30 p.m., Lynne B. Johnson arrives at Air Force One. Three minutes later, the White House assistant press secretary gives a conference from a nurse’s classroom at Parkland Hospital, announcing that the president is dead. When he makes this announcement, he says the cause of death was a gunshot wound from the front of the head to the back. And now he’s not even heard any other story about like the book depository we’ll talk about or the grassy knoll that we talk about. This is just from the people who were there who saw this body. Everyone’s kind of in agreement. He got shot in the front of the head, went out the back. Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1: 12:21
It kind of looks like that on the video, too.

Speaker: 12:23
I mean, I think that’s very obvious what happened, but that’s not the official story.

Speaker 2: 12:27
That’s crazy. That they’re trying to say that if there’s so much firsthand and video evidence. Yeah.

Speaker: 12:34
So Dr. Perry, who was the chief of vascular surgery, he’s the one who did the tracheostomy, he also was summoned to this press conference. Again, and he announces, yep, we assume the entry wound, you know, was the front, exit wound in the back. And as he walked off the stage, again, it’s like a big classroom, they’re like in front of a bunch of whiteboards. Um, but as he walked off stage, apparently a Secret Service said to him, He should never mention the neck wound if he wants to live. Oh. But I guess the point is that all these people, before anyone had time to like pow out together and come up with a story, like the the initial story that’s happening minutes after this happened, everyone is saying like he got shot in the front, right? Right. Oh my god. In the meantime, they have like summoned a um casket from a funeral home. So this casket shows up at the hospital, they put JFK in the casket, and they are rolling out of the hospital to head towards Air Force One. And Dr. Rose, he’s the medical examiner, and his office was like right off the hospital. And so he stops them and he’s like, you know, by law, any murder that takes place in Texas must have an autopsy in Texas. Oh. And I guess at this point it actually wasn’t even a federal crime to assassinate a president. What? Kind of wild that there was ever a time when that wasn’t a federal crime. Yeah. Um, but he’s like, you know, the law is if you die in a state, that’s the state that does the investigation. That’s the state that does the autopsy. Yes. So Dr. Rose is like, stop. We have to do an autopsy. And pretty much like Secret Service physically picks him up like a child and moves him out of the way. Oh my gosh. Like, we’re going. So they go out, they load him onto Air Force One, they fly to Andrews. They’re taking him to Andrews, and the goal, like one Salem and Andrews, they’re gonna take him to Bethesda Nables Hospital, which I think is now Walter Reed, and do the autopsy. That’s the plan. Meanwhile, about 2.07 p.m., Lee Harvey Oswald is arriving at the police station under arrest. So an hour and a half after off-duty, we’ve already got now, granted, he had not he was not at this point charged with JFK’s murder, but that was they were suspecting that he was.

Speaker 2: 14:32
I am sensing, I’m gonna have a hard time understanding how they can track the direction of a bullet to know where it came from. Oh girl. I’m like, there’s no way they could track that. Oh, I think I think you’ll be able to sparle it.

Speaker: 14:44
I don’t get it. There’s like people that study like bullets. I mean, you think from that far away. You think about like if there’s a small hole and a big hole, your entry one is probably the small hole, your ex one is probably a big one. Well, I know that. Okay. But how can you tell what building it’s like? Well, don’t you see like, haven’t you don’t you watch like true crime where they have like the light, like the radar, like the and then you can pick the I don’t actually watch the true crime. Oh my god.

Speaker 2: 15:06
I don’t at all.

Speaker: 15:07
So again, we’re like an hour and a half out. Lee Harvey Oswald is now at the police station. 2 38 p.m. LBJ is sworn on an Air Force One. We’ve seen that picture where we’ve got Jackie with the blood on her pink jacket. Yep. Around the same time, they do a paraffin test on Lee Harvey Oswald’s hands to see if he’s fired a weapon recently, and it says he has.

unknown: 15:25
Okay.

Speaker: 15:25
Okay. 4 p.m., Edgar Hoover, who’s the director of the FBI, he calls RFK Jr., JFK’s brother, to say, we got the man. So again, three and a half hours. Yeah, that’s uh very neatly tied up. Yes. We got the man. Around this time, also Lee Harvey Oswald is searched and they find five bullet cartridges in his pocket. And then Jack Ruby also, this is the first time Jack Ruby comes to the police station. So I’m gonna tell you about Jack Ruby. Okay. Jack Ruby is kind of a local mobster. Okay. I love a mobster. And and because he owned this club and he kind of ran like prostitutes, a prostitutes or whatever, which he supplied to a lot of these officers, uh-huh. He’s buddies with the officers. So they’re just like kind of letting him roam the police station.

Speaker 1: 16:04
Okay.

Speaker: 16:04
4 30 p.m., Dr. McClellan, which I also like good for him on this, Dr. McClellan, who worked with Dr. Perry on the president, Dr. McClellan’s a neurosurgeon. He has had everyone who was present, all of the med students, the residents, any physician, nurse, whatever, like document their story. And he’s like, write it down and bring it to me. So about 4 p.m., 4 30 p.m., he’s collected these statements, and every one of them noted a gunshot wound to the front of the neck.

Speaker 2: 16:31
Right.

Speaker: 16:32
6 p.m. Air Force One arrives at Andrews Air Force Base, and at 6 20 p.m., LBJ addresses the country for the first time. And then there’s a bit of a conspiracy theory about what happens right around 6.20, which we’ll get into later. If you believe these rumors, we’re talking about a body swap before the autopsy. This is when they think it happened. He addresses the country, and it’s after dark, and the Air Force One, they got all these lights. He addresses the country, all the lights go off for a couple of minutes. And this would have potentially been, if you believe this theory, I’ll get into when the body got swapped.

Speaker 2: 17:01
Well, I believe it. Okay. I know a little bit. I believe it.

Speaker: 17:05
And then there’s a lot of questions about when the body arrived for the autopsy, because this is the theory, not even so much of like it’s a day. Okay, so they claim that it’s that the that the body arrived at Walter Reed or Bethesda Nabel at 655. But there’s also documentation of this like 635 arrival that like people who were present wrote down. And so the thought is like, not necessarily that the body was swapped, but did the body did they swap the casket? This body gets there 30 minutes before everyone else. They have time to kind of clean up the body before this official autopsy happens. Uh-huh. It’s just like, why do we have documentation of us of a 635 arrival and then documentation of a 655 arrival? Yeah, that’s weird.

Speaker 2: 17:46
Suspicious. That’s weird.

Speaker: 17:48
But 685 is the time that the Secret Service documented and the time the newspaper is recorded. Okay. Okay. And then about the same time is when Lee Harvey Oswald is accused of murdering JD Tippett, and it is he says he didn’t do it. He pleads not guilty. He doesn’t even learn until the following day that he was accused of JFK’s murder. He had no idea. Oh my god. He’s just been arrested for this police office. I’m starting to feel bad for this guy. The plot thickens.

Speaker 2: 18:12
Oh, it’s getting thick like gravy and potatoes. Thick. So 8 p.m.

Speaker: 18:19
The autopsy begins.

Speaker 2: 18:20
No, finish the timeline.

Speaker: 18:21
I want to hear it all. And I want to get into it. So then, like the next day, within 48 hours of this happening, Lee Harvey Oswald is being escorted through the basement of the police station to be taken to a jail. There’s a crowd of reporters, and Jack Ruby, that mobster I told you about, pulls out a gun, shoots him, kills him. Stop. So no one ever got to hear Lee Harvey Oswald’s story, her vision events. All we have is that sound clip you probably see where he’s like, I’m a Patsy, I’m a Patsy.

Speaker 2: 18:49
And they still declare him the assassin, though, without ever trialing him? You betcha.

Speaker: 18:57
Can they do that? We’ll talk about it. And then JFK is buried early in Tashle Cemetery the next day. So that’s kind of our timeline. How long does it take to do an autopsy? A week. Two weeks? Well, this one was pretty quick. Yeah. It’s supposed to take, I’ll talk about when I talk about this autopsy. Apparently, you’re supposed to prepare the brain in like formaldehyde for a couple of weeks, and then you do that. I mean, you think about all these like autopsies we’re waiting to hear back on at the same time, and it’s like months and months. So let me tell you about the autopsy. At 6 20 p.m., uh, like I said, Lyndon Johnson finishes addressing the nation from the steps of Air Force One, and then the lights go out, TV’s cut. One of the theories is that under the cover of darkness, the body is loaded into a helicopter. Uh, he was in this casket that they had gotten from the funeral home, which was like a nice casket we usually see. But there was a separate casket, which is like what they would use for like dead soldiers and that kind of thing. That’s like a metal casket. So one of the theories is when he was on Air Force One, did they move him from that nice casket into the metal casket? Because there’s documentations that the body showed up in this metal casket, but other plate people claim it showed up in this nice casket. Okay. So if they did this body swap, then RFK and Jackie would have been escorting this empty casket to Bethesda. Again at 635, someone signed a Marine received this body. 655, the motorcade arrives. The Secret Service newspaper document that the time of arrival of the body for the autopsy was 655. And then the official autopsy begins at 8. So the question is if this body came at 635 and the autopsy doesn’t start till 8, what was going on for an hour and a half? Right. Okay. Swapping them up. Uh well, and one of the theories again is that if you look at pictures, you can pull them up too while you’re sitting here. So you guys saw where the back of his head blew off. Right. You saw that. Yeah. But if you look at some of these autopsy photos, the back of his head is completely intact. And there’s some theories that like you can maybe see a hand, like maybe this flap of skin was down and they like pulled it up and took a picture and just kind of made it look a little look better, prettier. Yeah. To hide the fact. Yeah, because it ruins their whole story. If they want to blame, we’ll get into this. If they want to blame Lee Harvey Oswald and they claim he he shot from the back, but it appears to be cleaner in the back. Exactly. So now we have to clean this up to match the story we want to tell. So this actual autopsy, they’ve confirmed at least 33 people present at the autopsy. That’s a ton of people. That’s a ton of people. And they said the entire viewing area, like think Grays Anatomy, you know, with like the viewing full. There was an X-ray tech who was interviewed in that doctor documentary. He said it was just chaos. They’re yelling, and like there was clearly a storyline that they wanted told, and the physicians were being told what they needed to document. So the person in charge, uh, Dr. Humes, is the one who was appointed to do the autopsy. He’s a pathologist. He had never done an autopsy on a gunshot victim, didn’t really know what he was doing. He didn’t know how to track a bullet wound. He was like apparently like sick. What did this guy do it? They wanted someone to control if you believe these theories. Then there’s just like all these, these FBI was like taking photos, and then they all got confiscated by Secret Service before they could leave the autopsy room. Is or the x-ray tech claimed that they had him tape fragments. Yeah. That the x-ray tech claims that they had him tape like bullet fragments before they took an x-ray so they could try to make the x-ray of the skull look like how they wanted it to look to tell the story they wanted to tell. James Jenkin, who was an assistant, he was the last living autopsy member. He said that when Dr. Hume’s removed Yes, see, fishy. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 22:29
Super fishy.

Speaker: 22:30
When Dr. Hume removed the brain, the brain had been clearly cut. In fact, he said, was there surgery done on this patient? Oh, quoted. Yeah, he asked that question. They’re like, no, because it was like a very clear cut across the brainstem. So again, was what was happening? Had someone manipulated this in the last hour and a half what was going on? Oh, that is so weird. Crazy. So that’s another theory that between 6:30 and 8 p.m. the brain might have been removed. Any metal was removed and it was replaced in the skull for this exam. I don’t know. Oh, that is so creepy. Point is that all of their documentation gets changed around, okay? And part of the confusion apparently is like, so no one talked to the team in Parkland until the next day. So they were like, oh, we’ve got a tracheostomy. No one was even thinking there was like a bullet wind there until the next day when they called the physician team and they’re like, oh no, there was a hole there, but we had to cut through it to make this straight tracheostomy. All the autopsy photos that were apparently taken disappeared or burned. There were people who were questioned who allegedly took pictures and they were like, those aren’t my photos. What? What happened? No one was allowed to have any notes. They confiscated everybody’s notes before they left. This is the Secret Service doing this. Yeah. I think this is Secret Service, but we’ll get into like the Okay. So Humes, again, having had no experience with gunshot wounds, he didn’t know how to like track the bullets. He didn’t, you’re I guess if you dissect the wounds at the skin, you can identify if it was an entry or exit wound. They weren’t able to do that. And again, all notes documentation was destroyed. Now, Rear Admiral George Berkeley, who I told you was the president’s private position. I guess the president’s private position always flies with them, right? Right, right. So he was present at Parkland, he signed the death certificate, he was present for the autopsy. Everyone who was there in the first 24 hours has the same story, and it is not the story that is being told now. That’s crazy.

Speaker 1: 24:13
But also when you watch the video, you see the bullet come, he gets it’s almost like it’s shot at an angle, the top, like right part of his face into the back of his head, and his body slumps toward Jackio.

Speaker: 24:29
Yeah, well, his head kind of flies back and then he slumps, right? And you would think if you were getting from the sh shot from the back, you would go forward. Correct. It doesn’t make sense that yeah, the story that changes doesn’t make any sense. Right. His private physician always maintained he was shot from the front, the bullet exited the back. He said this prior to the Warren Commission, he said it after the Warren Commission. And then there were a bunch, there were additional review boards. We’ll talk about additional reviews over the last several decades to kind of reinvestigate this. He was never questioned for any of those, um, never asked to testify. He did get promoted, and he was able to remain on as LBJ’s private physician. So there’s some theories was he like rewarded for his silence, like he played the game, but he always told his kids like the official story is not right what happened. Right. And then I told you how the Parkland doctors all were told to like compile their report, and they all reported destruction of the cerebellum, particularly the occipital lobe, which makes sense. That’s the back of the brain that looks like it all blew out. But then Humes, who did that autopsy, he didn’t say anything about the missing area of the cerebellum. Again, that with those Parkland doctors talk about like the brain matter dripping on the floor out the back of his head. Right. But they act like it was all just intact. And we saw Jackie chasing after the brain. Right. She’s grabbing at it. Yeah. But you guys were asking how long it takes to do an autopsy. Yeah. So apparently your brain is the consistency of a well-done soft boiled egg. That’s how they describe it in what it’s documentaries. Okay. The guy’s like, I know that’s graphic. It’s just the best way to describe it. That’s pretty hard to like cut into and study, right? Well done soft boiled egg. That’s right. That’s hard to cut into? No, it’s just like gonna be like runny and kind of a mess. Oh, oh, I see. So what you’re supposed to do is like prepare it, you know, soak in formaldehyde, give it two weeks, and it’ll become like a hard-boiled egg. Yes. Oh, got it. And then you can do the slices and study them. Okay. But without hardening his brain. They studied Well, they claimed the whole the whole brain was studied within like 72 hours, which you know doesn’t make sense if it needs two weeks to even prepare.

Speaker 1: 26:20
I cannot think about brains for too long.

Speaker: 26:23
Okay, so they probably didn’t study the brain as they were supposed to. Okay. And then as I mentioned, all of the notes were destroyed by the physicians or they disappeared. JT Stringer was a civilian navy photographer. He took all the autopsy photos, but they have all disappeared. And when questioned, like again, he was like on the stand and they were showing pictures, and he’s like, Those aren’t my photos. Yeah. So no one knows where these random photos we have in the archives came from. So if this was like a real case, if this happened, it’d be inadmissible because you’d have no chain of custody. You don’t know where these photos came from. Right. But we’re just to believe them right now, right? Yeah. No, that’s insane. Uh-uh. Why is the government so sketchy? Hiding. And then in the meantime, also the limo was shipped to DC. Like the that he was shot in, okay? Okay. The convertible. They keep they called limo. Yes, the convertible was shipped to DC. It had a broken windshield, they think, from a bullet coming from the front. Uh-huh. And a ding from like the back, like a bullet from the back. But we don’t really know because you know they replaced the windshield within they cleaned all the blood and everything within 36 hours. Replaced the windshield within 48 hours. What?

Speaker 1: 27:24
So I don’t understand. How is that not like what is it when you interfere with an investigation? Obstruction of justice. Yeah, obstruction of justice.

Speaker: 27:34
Should I tell you about Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby? Yeah. Tell us about the scapegoat. The scapegoat. Yeah. So Lee Harvey Oswald, who is recognized now as having done this murder, this assassination.

Speaker 1: 27:46
Yeah, he’s still the one people are like allegedly blame.

Speaker: 27:50
Correct.

Speaker 1: 27:50
Yeah.

Speaker: 27:50
So I’m going to tell you about him. I’ll tell you about Jack Ruby, and then I’ll go into the um investigations that happened and what they found. So Lee Harvey Oswald, he was born in New Orleans in 1939. Interestingly, he was actually a like a third cousin, I think, a distant cousin of Teddy Roosevelt and General Lee.

Speaker 1: 28:05
Oh.

Speaker: 28:05
Wow. His, I think his older brother was a Marine. He really liked envied his brother, respected his brother, was proud of him. He his father died before he was born. And so he had kind of a tumultuous upbringing. At one point, they were living with his mom’s family, but they were asked to leave after threatening his mom and aunt with a knife. He was evaluated by a psychiatric hospital as a child where they said he had personality pattern disturbance with schizoid features and passive aggressive tendencies. What’s the one where kids oppositional defiance? That’s it.

Speaker 2: 28:31
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking of. Yeah. You just and you just they have no concept of right versus wrong, and they are extremely aggressive. Uh-huh. And you just will never be able to like fully communicate with them about it. I don’t know what to do.

Speaker: 28:47
He precedes like sociopathy. Yes. Yeah. He was jailed for turns at the age of 12. He didn’t get along with well with others, it was kind of odd. He went to 12 different schools. At 15, okay, so again, I’m gonna tell you kind of the two versions here, right? There’s like the official this right now is kind of the official version, and I’ll tell you the other theory. Okay. So at 15, he identified as a socialist. He actually wrote to the Socialist Party of America requesting information on Young People Socialist League. He joined the Civil Air Patrol and then became a Marine at age 17, where he was assigned to radar operation and actually got a confidential security clearance. While in the Marines in 1957, 1958, he was stationed at Sugi Air Base in Japan, the home of the largest CIA station in the Pacific. Again, this is the official story. There is no evidence that Oswald was ever a CIA operative. He was a pretty low-level officer. In fact, he was court-martialed twice while based in Japan, once for shooting himself and then once for fighting with a superior. And he was also disciplined for firing a gun into the jungle for no clear reason. In 1959, he was honorably discharged, which makes me like you just got court-martialed twice and you got an honorable discharge. But it sounds like he left with like a hardship discharge, so claiming his mother needed care, and he did like briefly go home and see his mom, and then that was it. So he wasn’t really like her caretaker. Okay. Uh, and he was assigned to the reserves. Okay. In 1959, he defeated the USSR. He had like learned Russian by reading the paper, but it sounds like his Russian was maybe meh. He got a tourist visa to the USSR, and upon entering, like he enters the USSR and he’s like, I am a communist, I want to be a citizen. And they denied his citizenship. So he’s there for like a week. This tourist visa runs out, and so he attempts to slit his wrists, which buys him a stay in the psych ward. Gets so mentally up. He gets to stay in the USSR. Yeah, he’s definitely sounds mentally up. Yes. If you believe this official story. Okay. While there, he met and married his wife Marina, and they have a baby girl. In 1962, they moved to Dallas and they have a second daughter. The next year, Lee Harvey Oswald purchases a secondhand rifle and attempts to shoot U.S. Major General Edwin Walker while he was sitting by a window in his Dallas home. So I guess there was this assassination attempt against this general who was an outspoken anti-communist. So this general had actually been relieved relieved of duty because he had been like distributing right-wing propaganda to his troops. Okay. The general did not get injured with this like attempt. He was fine. And I guess Lee Harve Gaswald was never even like on the radar as having been the cause of this. But after everything happened, his wife did testify that he had confessed this to her and he’d actually left her handwritten instructions like, if I don’t come back, here’s what you should do. Oh my gosh. Um but again, so this was a failed attempt. A year later, he goes back to New Orleans, that’s where he came from. He leaves his wife in Texas. And while he’s there, he attempted to start a branch of Fair Play for Cuba for restoration of diplomatic and tourist relations with Cuba. In fact, the headquarters in New York City asked him like not to start his own chapter. They thought, like, that’s probably not gonna be very helpful to the cause. Right. But he decided to do it anyway. And he actually was the only member of this branch. Right. What is the problem with this? But while he’s there, he’s like all over the radio, he’s all over TV, like on the news, like handing out pamphlets. Okay. Has been, you know, very visible for this cause. He then traveled to Mexico and attempted to gain access to Cuba. After five days and multiple trips to the consulate, he was told, quote, in place of aiding the Cuban Revolution, he was doing it harm. In October of 1963, he returned to Dallas and got a job at the Texas School Book Depository. During the week, he stayed in a rooming house in Dallas and on the weekends he would go back to Irving, Texas to be with Marina and the two girls. And then given these attempts to get to USSR and Cuba, he was on the FBI’s radar. They were kind of watching him. His wife had actually been questioned multiple times about him, and Lee Harvey Oswald actually went to the FBI office and was like, I will blow up this office if you don’t stop bothering my wife.

Speaker 2: 32:26
Oh my gosh. He is so mentally ill.

Speaker: 32:30
That’s the official that’s the official story. But the alternative theory is that he could have been an intelligence officer.

Speaker 2: 32:38
Oh, this whole time.

Speaker: 32:40
Yeah. So so before the assassination of JFK, Otto Otepka, he uh worked for the State Department. He noted that they had a higher than normal number of defectors going into the USSR, and a lot of them seem to be military personnel or like former military. And so he was like, What’s going on here? Are these like plants? Are we are we sending people who are claiming to be defectors to like, you know, investigate for the United States? So he reached out to the CIA and he’s like, I need a list of your assets, United States assets. And on that list was Lee Har Harvey Oswald. Now, again, this is all before the assassination.

Speaker 1: 33:14
So he was on the US list for the USSR. Correct. Okay. Like the Okay. Side note. Lee Harvey Oswald. He can get it.

Speaker: 33:25
He’s he can be kidding. I thought so too. Yeah. Not the ones where he’s crazy screaming, but like him in his like military uniform and everything. Love a man and you. Oh my god. He was only 24.

Speaker 2: 33:36
Oh my god. Right? Me, if this happened in 24. He is hot. Yeah. Oh my god. Sir. Okay, Lee.

Speaker: 33:46
Justice for Lee. So if you believe that, like this version, then again, he was um like a CIA operative who had been placed, uh like was pr pretending to be this socialist and this communist. Okay, so he was a spy. Correct. Uh uh, and so apparently, though, this list shows up and Lee Harvey Oswald’s name on it, but the CIA is like, hey, don’t look into that, don’t worry about it. But Otto Otepka keeps looking into it. Of course. 17 days before the assassination, he gets fired. He was being a little too nosy. Okay. Like uh he got caught sniffing around where he doesn’t belong. Since then, other high-level intelligence agents have reported that Lee Harvey Oswald was a fake defector. So when he was in North New Orleans for a while, he was seen interacting with Clay Shaw, who is a CIA agent, Guy Bannister, who’s an FBI agent, and David Ferry, who’s like very vocal about being anti-communist. Okay. I told you he was on TV and on the radio a lot talking about his pro-Castro stance. So was this all for his cover story? Like to get publicity, look at me, I’m pro-Castro. Yeah. The FBI had a flash alert on his file, meaning anyone who tried to access it, it would like alert, uh, like it would let the FBI know that like somebody was looking looking at it. A few weeks before the assassination, the alert was removed to lower the threat level and minimize attention. So if this alert had remained on his file, then when the motorcade came through, they would have had to clear out anybody who was on this list. They would have been like a safety issue. Because I think you can have an alert if you’re like like um, you know, an American asset, or you can have an alert if like you’re suspicious. Right. So like you have to clear these people out. But they took it off, they didn’t want anyone to think about it, know he was there, worry about it, so this alert goes away. Oh. Also, interestingly, again, if you believe the story and we’ll talk about who had a motive and could have potentially been involved in this, there were actually two failed assassination attempts on JFK prior to this assassination. And the big one was on November 2nd in Chicago, but an anonymous tip came in from an informant informant named Lee. Oh, who said there are four Cubans heading to Chicago to assassinate JFK. Oh my gosh. The next day, a landlady reported that she had rented a room to four men with rifles and a motorcade map. They alerted Secret Service, who botched the investigation. Of course. In the end, Kennedy happened to cancel the trip at the last minute. But when you go into this storyline, this whole setup, the way the assassination was supposed to happen on November 2nd, lines up perfectly with what actually happened in Dallas. Like they were gonna be, they had a patsey picked out. They had a name, the person who was gonna take the fall. He was gonna be shot on the motorcade from a high building. Oh my god. It’s just like side by side. We’ll post to the Instagram this clip that’s like just side by side how it was like exactly the same scenario.

Speaker 2: 36:36
Lee Harvey Oswald was at the actual assassination in hopes to try to stop it and then end up being a scapegoat instead.

Speaker: 36:44
Colleen also always likes, she always finds the story where like the the guy that everyone thinks is bad is really the hero. Yeah. So that’s kind of the the Lee Harvey Oswald, who he is, and I don’t know. That’s two completely different situations. Is he a mentally ill socialist or was he trying to an American spy?

Speaker 3: 37:02
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:02
Wait, and when he was shot, he was saying, I’m a Patsy, I’m a Patsy, right?

Speaker: 37:06
Uh when they arrested him and they were like, You were uh they told him he was accused of JFK’s assassination, he looked shocked, like he had no clue. Oh. And then that’s when you see that clip where he’s screaming, Yeah, I didn’t do it, I’m a Patsy. Oh my god. Oh my gosh. And it makes me if this is how it happened, that’s just really heartbreaking that you could be like, you think you’re doing your like heroic and instant job, and they just throw you under the bus. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:31
That’s very uh American boss culture.

Speaker 1: 37:35
They don’t care about the little people. I think you could probably argue that’s like a universal boss culture. Yeah, that’s true. Not just Americans. That’s true.

Speaker: 37:43
And then let me tell you about Jack Ruby, who’s the guy who killed Oswald before we ever got a trial. Okay. Okay. So he was born in Chicago in 1911. He also had a turbulent childhood with a lot of violence between his parents. His mom was eventually committed to a mental institute, and he also was arrested for truancy at age 11. Truency? Truancy, like not going to school. Oh, okay. As an adolescent and young adult, he was heavy into gambling and horse racing. He was drafted into World War II and he worked as an aircraft mechanic until 1946. He returned to Chicago. He went on to manage a lot of nightclubs, strip clubs, dance halls, and he ended up in Dallas and he had uh I think the carousel, the carousel room. It’s like the club he owned there. Okay. And like I said, he had a lot of ties to the Dallas police officers because he would give them liquor, prostitutes, whatever. He was never married. There’s some allegedly he lived with this man who was questioned after all this happened and he did refer to him as his boyfriend, but then later on there was denial. So he may have had a live-in boyfriend partner, if you will. Partner.

Speaker 2: 38:42
Immediately I’m choosing to believe that.

Speaker: 38:44
Yeah. I love that. His business ventures were not successful, so he had a lot of debt. Uh as mentioned, he spent a lot of time with the police department after Oswald’s arrest, including during a press meeting with Oswald when he was asked if he killed the president. Oswald replied, No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question. That’s kind of Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:06
I feel like that wouldn’t track now, right? No. He’s being held without cause. When another reporter said Where’s that guy’s lawyer? Yeah. Did they even read him as Miranda rights? What did he think he was being arrested?

Speaker: 39:18
Well, they knew he was arrested for the the killing that police. The police officer. That’s what they got him in. But he denied that he killed the police officer.

Speaker 1: 39:25
Yeah. But he did have they did test his hands to see if he had fired a weapon. And he had. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly.

Speaker: 39:34
Uh so another reporter says, Well, you have been charged. And Oswald apparently looked astonished. Oh, because he says, I’ve not been charged with that. And the the reporter’s like, Well, you have been. And he just looked shot.

Speaker 2: 39:44
He’s like, Did I hear that right?

Speaker 1: 39:45
And then he stopped talking immediately. His eyes shoot up, like you have been charged.

Speaker: 39:49
And he goes, I know. Somebody set this man up. So this all happened on the 22nd, right? On November 24th, Ruby and his pet Dachson, Sheba, went to Western Union to send money to his employee. And Dachsan was the one who assaulted Tanner, right? Oh yes.

Speaker 1: 40:07
We hate Dachshunds.

Speaker: 40:09
So he walks a half a block to the police station. At 1121, Oswald was being escorted by two offs through the police basement to an armored car to take him to a nearby jail when Ruby pulled out his revolver and shot Oswald in the abdomen. Oh my god. Oswald is laying there, he’s dying. One of the policemen says to him, like, is there anything you want to tell us before you die? And Oswald said to give him medical treatment? Well, I think they were trying to, but it’s like it’s kind of like they do this on SVU all the time, too. Like they’re not gonna make it. We’re trying to save them, but they’re probably not gonna make it. And so this is their last chance to tell us who did it or whatever. They do this on SVU all the time. They do. Okay, so the point is they were like, you know, Lee, he’s dying. Do you want to tell us anything? And he says, no, he didn’t do it. Oh, and that’s his last dying. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:53
I wish he would have looked at him and been like, I did it. And then he died. But he didn’t. And actually, I’m team, I’m team justice for Lee. I feel bad for Lee.

Speaker: 41:03
Yeah. Actually, Dr. Perry, who was this the doctor who tried to save JFK, he also tried to save Lee Harvey Oswald. Wow. He took him to the same hospital. What a good man. And I read that Dr. Perry was like very traumatized after this, and he like fled Texas because he was tired of the questions and everything. I believe that. But yeah, that’s to be like, man, how do you stay in the medical field? Yeah. I say that, but so apparently Ruby’s bullet had entered Oswald’s left side and the front part of the abdomen, caused extensive damage to his spleen, stomach, aorta, vena cava, kidney, liver, diaphragm, an 11th rib. The man bled out. He died at 1.07 p.m. Jack Ruby claimed he was a fan of JFK. This was just like an emotional decision he made at the spur of the moment. Uh his defense attorney asked him if there was anything he needed to know to like, you know, help with his defense. And Ruby said, Well, it’ll be a real problem if this man named Davis should come up. Who the heck is that guy? Ruby told his attorney that he had been, quote, involved with Davis, who was a gun runner entangled in anti-Castro efforts. Oh. So initially, uh, Ruby was found guilty, but his conviction was overturned. And he repeatedly asked to speak to the Warren Commission, and he told people his life was in danger, but nobody wanted to listen to him.

Speaker 1: 42:21
Oh.

Speaker: 42:22
And then in 67, before it went back for retrial, he dies uh he had cancer. He actually died of a PE, pulmonary embolism related to his cancer. But that story kind of gives me Veronica Mars vibes. I know none of you guys, you didn’t make it thray calling, you didn’t watch. I watched part of it, but there is a spoiler alert, there is this convicted murderer who is dying, and then you find out that he was again like the Patsy, like we’ll pay you all this money, your family like if this guy this guy had all these like bankrupt businesses, yeah, and he’s dying. Yeah, was there some kind of payoff? Like, you’re gonna die anyway. So might as well get the money. Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1: 43:01
Wow.

Speaker: 43:02
So that’s Jack Ruby. Okay. Jack Ruby the mobster. The mobster. Justice for Lee. So now I’m gonna tell you guys. I kept referencing like the Warren uh report and the official investigations. Right. So now I’m gonna tell you about the government’s official investigations. On November 29th, 1963, seven days into his presidency, LBJ appointed Chief Justice Earl Warren to investigate. This was suggested by his advisors due to the distress that occurred as a result of Lee Harvey Oswald being shot. So everyone was like, What’s going on? JFK suddenly gets murdered, then his murder is suddenly dead.

unknown: 43:36
Yeah.

Speaker: 43:37
What the government covering up. And here we are, 60 years later. So the Warren Commission creates this report. It took 10 months and they test they interviewed five hundred and fifty two witnesses. The findings were that there is no evidence that either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy, domestic or foreign, to assassinate President Kennedy. Of course. The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor John Connolly were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. The Commission has found no evidence that anyone assisted Oswald in planning or carrying out the assassination. The Commission has found no evidence to show that Oswald was employed, persuaded, or encouraged by any foreign government to assassinate Kennedy or that he was an agent of any foreign government. No direct or indirect relationship between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby has been discovered by the Commission, nor has it been able to find any credible evidence that either knew the other. The Commission has found no evidence that Jack Ruby acted with any other person in the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald. There is no evidence that the extreme views expressed toward President Kennedy by some right-wing groups centered in Dallas or any other general atmosphere of hate or right-wing extremism, which may have existed in the city of Dallas, had any connection with Oswald’s actions on November 22nd.

Speaker 3: 44:44
Okay.

Speaker: 44:44
So pretty much they’re saying Lee Harvey Oswald did it. He did it alone. It was not a conspiracy. And Jack Ruby was just a random guy who shot him. Okay. And I’m the guy. I don’t believe it. Yeah. Well, there were a lot of issues. So I’ll go through the issues with the commission and then the issues with their theory. Okay.

Speaker 1: 45:02
Namely, go watch the video of Lee Harvey Oswald being told that he’s being charged for killing the president. His eyes say it all.

Speaker: 45:15
Issues with the commission. The media had been bribed with early leaks in exchange for not questioning the reports. And we have proof-proof of this. Proof-proof. So, you know, they go, okay, here we got, there’s all these photo ops you can see of them with the massive report. And they’re like, here it comes, we’ve officially released it. That thing is like this thick. Whoa. Okay. That’s what she said. And within minutes, the news is reporting on it and what the findings were. So obviously they had early access to the report, and the thought is this was an exchange for like if you don’t question it, then that’s what you get. Then we’ll give it to you. And then you can really be like first out with the news story.

Speaker 1: 45:50
Okay. Right. And so we know that they made this deal with So the government was conspiring with the media. Wow, that’s not something I’d ever think they’d do. Yeah.

Speaker: 45:59
Never heard of such a thing. No. So we know that CBC, NBC, and New York Times in particular were all kind of involved in this. Yeah. Dulles was the head of the CIA. He was fired by JFK in 1961. He’s on this commission. Do you think that like an irate employee that you fired should be investigating your murder? No. No. Also, there’s a lot of conspiracies that the CIA was involved. It just seems like a lot of conflict of interest. And then Gerald Ford was on the commission. He was Hoover’s buddy. Now again, Hoover is the head of the FBI. And we know factually that Gerald Ford was leaking classified discussions to Hoover on a weekly basis. Oh my god. I mean, that’s fishy to be like, we’re having these classified discussions, but I’m just gonna keep, you know, updating that my buddy who’s the head of the FBI. I told you that Dr. Perry before and after had been adamant about the entrance wound being the front and the exit wound being the back. Right. But this whole commission, we’ll talk about it, has this single bullet theory. So Dr. Perry, we talked about, had like he had kind of a firm story that never changed, except kind of like during this Warren Commission. He claims he was bullied by Secret Service to say that the entrance wound was in the back of the head because that was the only way that it would match up with their story. Right. And then they depth they like picked and chose the witnesses that they that they could use that would fit their story. So like one of Lee Harvey Oswald’s uh coworkers was kind of able to counter the story because they they claim that like Lee Harvey Oswald fled fled down the stairwell. Okay. But this lady’s like, well, I was in the stairwell and I didn’t see him. And they’re like, Oh no, well, that that that’s not true. And she’s like, No, seriously. And I was with my buddy so-and-so. We should interview her. And they’re like, We don’t need to interview her, we’ve got you. And then she’s like, Well, this is not how it happened. Can I participate in the reenactment? And they were like, No, we’re good. It’s like they just picked and chose they wanted, yeah, they had a story and they just wanted to make everyone else fit their story.

Speaker 1: 47:50
It reminds me of that. Um, what’s the Netflix documentary that just came out? American Nightmare. Yeah, the gone war. That like the police like basically thought that she was like spinning her own story and like that she was a gone girl. Oh my god. And they basically stopped investigating because they only saw what they wanted to see. This is what it said.

Speaker: 48:11
But it was very seen unbelievable. It was kind of like that. And then Hoover, the head of FBI, actually sent a memo to Johnson that they did not have a case for Lee Harvey Oswald. Then he sent a second memo that they needed to present some proof to appease the public. So, did they just decide to create some proof in order to appease the public? Why were pivotal witnesses to the autopsy not interviewed for the Warren Commission? So, yeah, a lot of people have come forward to say they were interviewed, but then they weren’t actually called to testify because like they had evidence that did not track with the official story. And now the issues with the actual Warren Commission theory, okay? They allege that three shots were fired. If more than three shots were fired, it would be impossible for this to have been Lee Harvey Oswald alone. Okay. So that’s what’s kind of key here is more than three shots means there was a conspiracy.

Speaker 1: 48:59
Yeah.

Speaker: 48:59
Three shots or less is the only way that Lee Harvey Oswald’s story stands. So remember, the governor was also shot. Uh, so Arlen Spector, who was kind of like the head prosecutor here, he went on to serve 30 years in the Senate after all of this. He devises a single bullet theory that a single bullet killed Kennedy and then hit the governor. So they claim the first shot came in from the back, passed through Kennedy’s neck and exited through his throat before striking Connolly beneath the right scapula, exiting below his right nipple, going through his wrist and lodging in his thigh. Then they think the second shot missed and the third shot hit JFK in the head from the back. So this is what they talk about the magic bullet. Like, how did this single bullet, again, pass through Kennedy’s neck, exit his throat, strike Connolly beneath the right scapula, exit below his right nipple, go through his wrists and lodge in his thigh. So here’s the diagram. Yeah, that’s like the magic bullet. Yeah. Now I will say that if you there’s a second photo here. So if Connolly was actually in a jump seat, like a pull-down seat, it might not have been like a regular seat, in which case you can sort of make this bullet line up. Okay, but the bullet was not damaged. This bullet would have had to have gone through it’s like seven layers and two bones. And it came out pristine. And there’s just no way. Yeah. Right. And this third shot, them saying it came from the back, doesn’t make sense. Actually, there were two different bullets, they think, that were used, like, so not the same weapon. First two bullets were like it’s supposed to like wound somebody on the battlefield and get them off the battlefield, but not kill them. And then the third one that blew off the back of his head is like a high destruction, it’ll like right, right? So again, not from the same gun. Connolly maintains that he heard a shot before he he was shot. So this argument that the first shot went through JFK and into Connolly. Connolly’s like, no, there was a shot. Then I was hit. So he doesn’t believe this theory. He’s the one who was hit. Yeah. And then there were street level witnesses who reported smelling gunpowder. And so Oh, so somebody in the audience.

Speaker 2: 51:04
Yes, because Oswald was in a building, right?

Speaker: 51:07
Correct. And so the gunpowder smell would be from around the gun if he’s up on the sixth floor, wired people on the ground. That’s crazy. And again, that they’ve researched that actually like looked at the weather conditions that day, the wind and all of that, and they’re like, Yeah, if you smelled gunpowder, it had to have come from in that area. How many people said they smelled gunpowder? It just says there were multiple street level witnesses. Okay. But the vice president Johnson, he didn’t he believed Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, but he didn’t believe the single bullet theory. And then RFK, he always thought there were multiple shooters involved because he had advisors that were with Kennedy that day who were witness to the whole thing. And so anyway.

Speaker 1: 51:43
It sounds like there definitely wasn’t just one bullet. Yeah. There’s no way. There’s no way it was.

Speaker: 51:47
And again, it’s pretty much like there was the single bolt that hit them both. Then one of them they know missed, and then a third one hit him in the back of the head. Right. Yeah. And the only way for their Lee Harvey Oswald did it by himself theory to work is if that is how it happened. Okay. And that doesn’t make sense. We know he we know that he was shot from the front, just based on that video. Yeah, you can see it. And we don’t believe that a single shot went zigzagged through JFK and Connelly. Also, if you look at the parade or the motorcade route. So the the car comes down through Dealy Plaza and it makes a left and it turns. So if Lee Harvey Oswald was shooting from the book depository, he had a straight shot as the motorcade approached him. But instead, they’re arguing that he waited for this car to turn, go by all these trees, create an obstructed view, and then he shot the president. Yeah. Doesn’t make sense. Yeah. There were also some issues with the chain of custody of this magic bullet. So can we even trust our evidence? There are no prints anywhere, like on any of the casings or anything. And then there’s this reporter who said he went into the depository with uh Secret Service, like right after this happened, and he filmed the scene before it had even been touched. And he filmed them picking up three casings that were all kind of clustered together. But if you believe this story, the casings would not have all been clustered by the window. They would have kind of been thrown and spread out. So then there was this like illustration released where the casings were all spread out, and this reporter is like, that’s not what I have on film, that’s not what we saw. So why are they staging a photo? Because they want it to match their story. Right. Right. And then the other thing, this kind of goes back to like the MH370 theories we talked about. Like, if you’re trying to do like have like a terrorist attack, you would want to claim responsibility, right? Like what if Lee Harvey Oswald did this for political purposes? Yeah, it’s not a good thing. If you haven’t like taken responsibility and like gotten your message out, then what is the point? Like you’d think that, you know, when they were like, Did you do it? Do you have any lost words?

Speaker 1: 53:43
He’d have been like, There, it it’s right there. His head goes back.

Speaker: 53:47
I don’t understand. And then many years later, we see this Zabruder film. So Zap that’s kind of what you’re looking at right there. So to be clear, that did not come out right away. Oh, okay. But Zapruder, excuse me, was a um a designer who lived in Dallas, and he actually was filming, you know, the motorcade, and he captured this on film. And so kind of what you’re looking at there, Kate JFK goes behind the sign, and when he comes back into view, he’s clutching his neck.

Speaker 3: 54:13
Yeah.

Speaker: 54:14
And that’s like 1.5 seconds later. Connolly is shot. Literally see his like face off the side of his face. Yeah. So again, we think total of three shots were done within 5.6 seconds, and two of them were fired within 2.7 seconds based on that. CBS Special had 10 expert marksmen attempt to recreate it with a moving target. Only one was able to complete that task, and that was only after multiple attempts. And even he didn’t think that Lee Harvey Oswald would have been capable of doing it. It’s it is incredibly challenging, and people are arguing that Lee Harvey Oswald was not that great a marksman. So Paul Landis was Secret Service. He was assigned to Jackie, and he actually left Secret Service after a few months. He had some trauma from all of us, obviously. I mean, like appropriately so, I think I would too. But he read this book in 2014 where they talk about that magic bullet that was found in Connolly’s stretcher when he arrived in Parkland. Uh, and that’s how this whole single bullet theory came about. Because they’re like, oh, we’ve got the bullet. This is this is how it must have happened. So then he comes forward and he’s like, guys, I found a bullet. They also talk about this on that doctor documentary. But he’s like, when we got to the hospital and Jackie got out of the limo, there was a bullet sitting on the seat, and I didn’t want something to happen to it. So I picked it up and I took it inside to the hospital, and I set it next to the president’s stretcher because I thought this is a good place for it. I don’t want it to disappear. So if you believe his story, that he found this bullet in the car and set it next to the president in the hospital, then that would indicate that that bullet had struck Kennedy in the back and become dislodged as opposed to penetrating Connolly. So anyway, again, it’s like if you believe any of these other stories, it ruins their single bullet theory, which is required in order to say it was one shooter. But again, some of this information kind of trickled out later. So Warren Commission, that was the that was the big investigation they did, and they said, Yep, Lee Harvey Oswald did it. He did it alone. Okay.

Speaker 2: 56:07
No way.

Speaker: 56:08
So then in 1975, the church committee, Senator Church was from Idaho, they do an investigation into the CIA, FBI, NSA, and IRS. Part of this investigation was to look at the Warren Commission’s investigation. So they interview 50 witnesses, they review 3,000 documents, and they’re like, man, there’s some issues here with how this information was obtained. This is a deficient investigation. We need to create like a committee to just investigate the JFK assassination. Right, right. So they create the House Select Committee on Assassinations. It actually was supposed to look at MLK Jr. and JFK’s assassinations. And so this investigation went on from 1976 to 1979. And their report was that they did not believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. This is the quote. The committee therefore concluded that the testimony of witnesses in Dealy Plaza on November 22nd, 1963, supported the finding of the acoustical analysis that there was a high probability that a shot was fired at the president from the grassy knoll. There were also witness reports of suspicious activity in the vicinity of the knoll, and they found the following. Oswald fired three shots. The third shot he fired killed the president. Scientific acoustical evidence established a high probability that two gunmen had fired. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. 95% or a better probability that there was a shot fired from the grassy knoll, concluded that no U.S. agencies were involved, but it could not rule out organized crime or anti-castro groups. That was a report. But then later questions did come out about like this audio analysis they did where they thought they heard a fourth gunshot. We review that that’s kind of fishy, but the point is they did not agree with the Warren Commission, did not think it was appropriately done. Okay. The big reveal from their report also was that the government had been tracking Lee Harvey Oswald and uh tracking his male following his mom prior to the assassination. And again, that’s when we learned he’d been interacting with the Cubans and the Russians, but we don’t really know. We’ve already discussed, right? We don’t really know if he was spying or if he truly wanted to defect Ray, USSR or Cuba. So then in 1991, Oliver Stone releases this film, um JFK, and it sparked new conspiracy theories. In response to that, Congress creates the Assassination Records Review Board. So this is from 1994 to 1998, and they just said the majority of Americans did not believe this official story of Lee Harvey Oswald. So they really wanted to restore like government credibility. And the goal was really for the government to go back. Look, let’s look at all the documents, let’s see if we can release any document that is not like a risk to national security. Okay. Interestingly, as this is all happening, Secret Service starts destroying records. Yeah. And all these records disappear.

Speaker 2: 58:41
What’s the difference? Of course, is Secret Service hiding?

Speaker: 58:44
I’m just confused. We’re gonna talk about that when I go into like who did it? Right. There’s so that’ll be our very final portion here will be like who had motive and why. But yeah, it’s like everybody had motive. Right. So September 30th, 1998, the Assassination Records Review Board submits its final report. They declassified five million pages of documents. This is like from the CIA, the FBI, the Warrant Commission, all those. And they conducted new interviews. They created a deadline for the re release of all documents by 2017. And then I guess when Trump, I don’t remember this, but you can go online and see all of his tweets. When he took office, he’s like hyping up the release. Like 2017, he’s like, it’s coming. The you know, the the country deserves transparency. I can’t wait to release all this information. And then all of a sudden, in like the 11th hour, he says, you know, there’s identifiable national security, law enforcement, and foreign affair concerns. And so at the request of the FBI and CIA, we’re not gonna release everything. My God. And so they just keep pushing back the date of when everything will be released, and they’re slowly trickling things out. Um, we think about 95% of the documents have been declassified, but we still have like five percent.

Speaker 2: 59:50
That doesn’t include the stuff that they destroyed.

Speaker: 59:52
Yeah. The point is we’ve we’ve had now four different investigations into the assassination of JFK, and like we still don’t know what happened. Yeah. And like none of them are in agreement. These findings like are not in agreement. So those are the official investigations. We will wrap this up here with like what was happening in the world at that time and who had motive, and then you guys tell me Cuba. It’s on there. You guys tell me what you think, okay? Okay, yeah, it’s okay. It’s cool, but the USSR is always on there too. Yeah. So let’s start with what was happening in the world because none of us are good history students. Right. I had to really educate myself, but what I learned is that really JFK was a great guy, but he also had a lot of enemies. In 1959, Castro rose to power as the first communist dictator in the Western Hemisphere. Nixon, who was VP at the time, met Castro and he’s like, red flags everywhere, this guy’s trouble, we gotta stop him. And they’re very nervous about Castro’s ties to Khrushchev in the Soviet Union. So the CIA is working on coming up with a plan to overthrow Castro. And Eisenhower had approved a program in March of 1960 where they were gonna use these Cuban exiles and train them as military in Guatemala. So if you be trained by US military, the CIA would support them, but it wouldn’t actually be like Americans invading Cuba. Meanwhile, JFK is running for president, and part of his platform is like U.S. forces will not intervene in Cuba ever. So JFK gets elected, it’s right before his inauguration, and the CIA briefs him on like this plan that’s already been put into place. Okay. And JFK didn’t like it. Yeah, well, JFK’s like that. I promised the American people we weren’t gonna get involved, but now he’s kind of in a tough position. He’s in a rocky, hard place. Yeah. So he’s like, okay, well, we really have to minimize American involvement. Like, we’re gonna disguise our support as much as possible. Okay. The plan is that under the cover of darkness, two separate teams are gonna land in different locations and create confusion. Uh, but there was a mishap before the invasion. The CIA had painted these old B-26 bombers to disguise American involvement, because again, we don’t want anyone to know that we’re involved in this, but the bombers fail to take out their target, which was the Cuban airstrip. So the this botched attack is publicized, photos of these planes are leaked, and it becomes obvious that the US was involved.

Speaker 3: 01:02:03
God damn.

Speaker: 01:02:04
So now JFK is humiliated and he cancels the airstrikes that were going to be part of this attack plan. So this whole attack, a disaster. Right. 24 hours into fighting, this 1400-person guerrilla team is getting destroyed by the 20,000 Cuban soldiers. So holy moly. JFK finally decides to send in some unmarked fighter jets, but because of the time zone change, the fighter jets were an hour late. Oh no. That’s embarrassing. So they get shot down by the Cubans. And almost all the guerrilla fighters were killed or captured. Eventually, RFK negotiated their release 20 months later in exchange for $53 million in baby food and medicine donated by various companies in the United States. Oh, wow. Herber. And as a result of this whole debacle, Dulles is fired as head of the CIA. And Dulles, remember I told you, ended up being on the warrant commission after JFK fired him over this hole. Dulles. Wait a second. Yep, Dulles Airport.

Speaker 2: 01:02:56
Wait, Michael knew some stuff. We were rolling our eyes on Michael. 100% correct on so far. Correct on everything he said. Cannot wait to talk about Abraham Lincoln.

Speaker: 01:03:06
So that’s the Bay of Pigs. 1962, the next year, we have the Cuban Missile Crisis. So an American spy plane secretly photographs nuclear missile sites in Cuba. The CIA and U.S. military advised an attack, but Kennedy was worried about a nuclear war, so he negotiates with Kukhrush against his advisors’ orders, and they come to an agreement. The Soviets will dismantle their weapons in Cuba, and six months later, the US will dismantle their weapons in Turkey. So this compromise is a success. We avoided war. It’s all great. But his advisors, like JFK’s advisors, were not in support of any of this. Right. The Pentagon was like ready to go to war, but JFK’s like, we can’t be in like Vietnam, in Cuba, in Russia. All at the same time. Yeah, there’s like too much going on here. So he was really trying to avoid war, but it sounds like it was definitely against the recommendations of the people advising him. So again, a lot of enemies within his administration. In fact, General Millet, who I guess he fought with throughout his presidency, they they were like, okay, everybody meet at Andrews Air Force Base. We’re gonna meet the body. And he’s like, he was in Canada or something. He’s like, you know what? I’m good. I’m just gonna fly into national airport. I don’t need to be there for this big ceremony. And then he showed up at the autopsy and he was smoking a cigar during the autopsy. General Millet, the doctor during the autopsy, was like, someone needs to put out that cigar. But everyone’s like, Yeah, this guy was just celebrating, like my enemy. You know, lots of people didn’t like him. He also had alienated some Americans with his civil rights position, which is huh humiliating to look back now and be like, this was only, you know, 60 years ago. Most of the southern governors were upset because he was making them admit African Americans to public universities. His stance on integration civil rights had maybe also made some enemies.

Speaker 1: 01:04:48
The 60s really were was like a wild time.

Speaker: 01:04:51
I think about it too. Every time I think about CIA stories, and there’s like the the secret shit that was happening.

Speaker 2: 01:04:56
I don’t really know the difference. That’s happening in FBI.

Speaker: 01:04:59
So just like FBI, I think about is like again, Federal Bureau, right? Like I feel like they’re like federal crimes, federal issues. I feel like CIA is more international, right? They’re doing like intelligence secret shit.

Speaker 2: 01:05:11
Where does the military is the military a part of the CIA too? No, it’s all complete.

Speaker: 01:05:15
CIA’s top secret. CIA, we now know to be responsible for like Watergate. I’m gonna tell you about how they assassinated a bunch of other world leaders without like they just have like no government oversight. It was just like I just picture these like spies in these other countries, you know. Have you been to the spy museum?

Speaker 1: 01:05:32
Yeah.

Speaker: 01:05:32
Wild.

Speaker 1: 01:05:33
And the spy museum is so wild. You think that it’s like doesn’t happen anymore, but there’s still spies everywhere. Everywhere.

Speaker: 01:05:41
CIA is more about like foreign intelligence gathering, focuses on international matters, while the FBI is more like domestic and it upholds like our federal laws and investigates federal crimes. I think the FBI has more oversight than the CIA. I think the CIA is just like out there doing wild shit and it’s like Like, don’t ask, don’t tell. Crazy to me. So let’s talk about the different theories, the different potential motives that groups had. Bum bum. Okay. Okay. So the first one, and this one, I kind of wanted to believe at first. It made the most sense to me, except I can’t really explain the cover-up. So the first one is the mob. Okay. Oh. So JFK had appointed his brother, RFK, as attorney general. I know. That’s your Kennedy. RFK comes out as Attorney General as with a strong stance against organized crime. He felt that like organized crime is the number one risk to the U.S. population at this particular time. Uh, on top of that, there was a lot of money laundering by the mobs through Cuba. So they had um casinos and businesses in Cuba. So the the mob is losing money with their businesses in Cuba because of what’s going on, right? Because you couldn’t we couldn’t go to Cuba. Right, right, right. So after the Bay of Pigs disaster, all the businesses in Cuba remained shut down, particularly, like I said, a lot of casinos. The mob had been trying to kind of turn Cuba into like the next Vegas, like make it a a uh tourist destination. Yeah. So they had been really building up there, and now it’s like they’ve got all this money invested and they’re just losing money. Right. On top of that, now this I’m gonna say was difficult to corroborate. I did see a couple places a similar story. Like, so one of the stories is that JFK’s older brother died. And when he died, JFK, who we know is a bit of a ladies’ man, right, starts seeing his dead brother’s girlfriend.

Speaker 1: 01:07:29
Oh my god.

Speaker: 01:07:30
And his dead brother’s girlfriend was allegedly a mobster’s daughter. Oh my god. And eventually they eloped. What? And then JFK’s dad, as you know, was trying to build this like political empire, and he’s like, this is not gonna cut it. You know, you’re getting this annulled. Cut it out.

Speaker 2: 01:07:47
Oh my god. So JFK’s been divorced.

Speaker: 01:07:50
So he’s a Catholic, you know? So it was annulled. So I will say what makes it I have Is this wait, is are are these documents out there? Like this is for sure. I think that I’m I read mental multiple sources saying that he had eloped with a mobster’s daughter and had it annulled. Whether or not it was his brother’s girlfriend, I don’t know. So allegedly he was married. Allegedly he was married before Jackie, but it was annulled, so it doesn’t count. He was not defensive. Not in the eyes of the church. That’s right. Yeah. Again, JFK’s dad is like, I’m trying to build this political empire with my sons, and like if this gets out, that’s not good, right? JFK’s a good Catholic boy. So he kind of makes a deal with the mob. Like, if you keep this under wraps, we’ll look out for you, you know, when we get higher up in the next time. Yeah. Well, then they didn’t do that, right? Because now we have RFK and JFK being like, we’re taking out the mob. That’s our number one threat. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 01:08:46
This is all making sense. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 01:08:48
I can see that guy’s Ruby guy was a mobster. Yeah.

Speaker: 01:08:52
Yeah. In fact, the leader before Castro had accumulated $300 million in wealth. He had like three cargo planes full of his like belongings, but he made $300 million via like a symbiotic relationship with the mob. So I I think everyone was profiting, and then here comes the Kennedys. Right. Right. So I kick on the Kennedys. So I feel like I feel like I can 100% buy into this theory. Yeah. But again, why would the why all the like the mob did not have the ability to fake the autopsy?

Speaker 2: 01:09:27
And they don’t there would have to be some government involved secret service. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 01:09:33
CIA, FBI, Secret Service. I mean, maybe the mob had like an undercover Secret Serviceman. Yeah. What do you mean they couldn’t do that? The mob does crazy things.

Speaker 2: 01:09:46
They could, but did they have that much control? I mean, I don’t know. I need to hear other theories. You ever heard about Batman?

Speaker 1: 01:09:53
You’re so right. I don’t know. Batman.

unknown: 01:09:55
Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:56
You see the mob?

Speaker 1: 01:09:57
No, he was trying to take down the mob in Gotham City. No, a lot of those guys were mobsters. His parents were killed by mobsters.

Speaker: 01:10:04
Clearly, I was not watching enough nerdy TV.

Speaker 1: 01:10:07
Hold on. But that was in like the time of like 40s, 50s, 60s. The mob had a lot of, I think, more, I don’t know, value than they do today, or maybe like the spotlight was on them more than it is today. Like we don’t think we think of the mob as like a 40s, yeah, 50s, 60s kind of thing. Where like mobranos. What was that? 90s? Yeah. Right. Well, the mob is still out there. Just nobody talks about it anymore. Oh girl. The mob is out there. Love me some mobsters. Especially the Italian mob. That’s who I pledge my allegiance to. And and America.

Speaker: 01:10:44
All right. So we got the mob. And then we have the CIA. So as I mentioned, when Kennedy assumed the presidency in January of 1961, Ianair did a federal agency that had just like spun out of control. They had been just pursuing their own objectives during the Eisenhower administration. It’s a coup. Instigating coups, citing inciting rebellions, trying to assassinate foreign leaders. Oh, ho, ho, ho. And generally like without White House supervision or input. And then we had that 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion I told you about, which the CIA had orchestrated. And it ended up being a disaster and a political liability for Kennedy. And he fired the director, as I told you. So we have the Bay of Pigs debacle, in which Kennedy refused to provide air support, which led to some tension between the CIA and JFK. On top of that, we’ve got Dulles, the director of the CIA, who’s been fired. And then JFK was like, this group is out of control. We’re cutting their budget by 20%. Oh my goodness. That’s a lot. Keen RFK thought the CIA knew that the Bay of Pigs was going to fail without military support, but JFK was like, I’m the leader, fuck stops here. Publicly, JFK had to take responsibility. So there’s kind of some drama. Bitterness. Yeah. And then just generally, there was this idea from the government, from the CIA, that JFK was like weak on foreign policy and just wasn’t taking a firm enough stand against communism. So I think there was a lot of bitterness. JFK said he wanted to quote, splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds. No wonder he had a target on his head. Yeah. RFK Jr., who’s the nephew, JFK’s nephew, RFK’s son, he believes the CIA was involved. He said when my uncle was president, he was surrounded by a military-industrial complex and intelligence apparatus that was constantly trying to get him to go to war in Laos, Vietnam, etc. He refused. He said that the job of the American presidency is to keep the nation out of war. There was also the Lumumba drama. Eisenhower had ordered the CIA to take out Lumum Lumumba. Lumumba. Lumumba. He was the first elected prime minister of Congo. Okay. Eisenhower said CIA, take him out. Eisenhower. Then Kennedy gets elected. Because again, Kennedy’s like inheriting all this plans that were already in place. So Kennedy gets elected. He’s like, release Lamumba. And then Lamumba gets mysteriously killed. Oh and anyways. And Kennedy didn’t even find out for months. He just thinks that this guy’s been released and all is well. But the point is like the CIA is not even listening to the president. They’re just like doing their own thing. That is crazy. So again, lots of conflict between the CIA and Kennedy. And again, no one’s really realizing quite a bit. What’s the lead the CIA? Well, it was Dallas who got fired. Oh. And then also of note with the CIA theory, if you’re thinking like the motive here was that they hated each other. The CIA deputy director Charles Cabell, whom Kennedy had also fired, was the brother of Earl Cabell, who was Dallas’s mayor in 1963 when this assassination happened.

Speaker 2: 01:13:33
Kind of giving me that Kennedy came in and just cleared house and they hated too many people. Yeah. Like he made too many changes too quickly, which is not what you’re supposed to do.

Speaker: 01:13:44
He also had Kennedy had, we know many mistresses. We’re going to talk about Marilyn Monroe later. He was a ladies’ man. Like on a different episode. But Mary Pincho Meyer was one of his alleged mistresses. She was married to a CIA official. Oh. She was murdered in 1964. Oh my god. It all just sounds a little conspiracy. Yeah. Sounds like it was cleaned up with the little bow. So what do you think about the CIA?

Speaker 2: 01:14:09
I’m thinking they did it. I mean, if they’re willing to hide stuff from the president, they’re willing to kill the president.

Speaker: 01:14:15
And we know that they were involved in, again, killing other heads of state.

Speaker 2: 01:14:20
Yeah.

Speaker: 01:14:20
That was just practice. Yeah, target practice. Yeah. Okay, and then Richard Nixon ran against Kennedy. Nixon was vice president for Eisenhower, runs against Kennedy. Kennedy wins. And I think Nixon beats LBJ. Nixon. So he oversaw the CIA’s original plan to take back Cuma from Castro when he was Eisenhower’s VP. He was in Dallas on the day of the assassination. And if anybody could have planned a concealed a plot as intricate as the Kennedy assassination, it would be the CIA. Again, I told you they’d already helped oust heads of state in Guatemala and Iran. How about this, guys? Okay. Oh God. While the motorcade is making its way through Dallas, a CA operative in Paris was unbeknownst to most of the higher-ups, giving a poisoned pen to someone to pass on to Fidel Castro. So a poisoned pen? Yeah. There was a unregulated assassination assassination in progress. Oh. While JFK is being assassinated. You know, maybe this goes back to me being like, I feel like the mob could do it, but how’d they cover it up? The CIA and the mob had been conspiring to out Castro together. So I guess perhaps there is a link. Yeah. Wow. And so then there’s this three tramps theory. Tramps. This goes into the CIA if you believe the CIA did it. Okay. There were three tramps, which I guess is almost perfect. No, it’s like a homeless. Yeah, what’s a tramp? It’s the 1960s. Aren’t the tramps the people who have the um the sticks? The sticks? Oh my god. An undomiciled is what they call it on the news. Okay, a tramp for anyone who was born after the 1960s is a person who travels from place to place on foot in search of work as a vagrant or beggar. Oh, a gypsy. That might be offensive. Gypsy’s a little bit a vagrant, a vagabond, a homeless person. Not gypsies. An undomiciled person. Oh. A derelict.

Speaker 2: 01:16:10
Let’s just call them nomads. Oh, yeah.

Speaker: 01:16:11
A person of no fixed address. A bag man. Because I picture them. I think they had the sticks with their belongings in the hand.

Speaker 2: 01:16:18
Then it’s the menace.

Speaker: 01:16:19
Yeah. A trio of men were arrested in the rail yard behind Dealy Plaza immediately after the assassination. Okay. Photos show them being led through the downtown streets by Dallas police officers, yet there was no record of their arrest. Theorists believe they looked like CIA agents E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and Charles Harrison. Side note, Charles Harrison assassinated a federal judge and was the father of Woody Harrelson. He was a CIA agent. What? According to the Three Tramps theory, the CIA operatives killed Kennedy and federal agents covered it up. However, in 1992, a Dallas researcher, Mary Lafontaine, searched through Dallas Police Department files and she was able to find these overlooked arrest records from November 22nd. And the three tramps were in fact three tramps Harold Doyle, Gus Abrams, and John Forrester Gidney.

Speaker 1: 01:17:06
So yeah, anyone can make up names.

Speaker 2: 01:17:08
Yeah. Yeah. So what do you guys think about the CIA? I think they did it. I think the CIA conspired with the mob. They have enough power to do it and connections. I wouldn’t be shocked if they invited the mob to partake because they knew Kennedy had issues with the mob. Also, mob’s got some sharpshooters, you know what I mean? I have a feeling it was the CIA leading it and included the mob, etc.

Speaker 1: 01:17:31
Well, they, you know, the CIA was gonna let the mob take the fall if they ever got a big thing. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. No, I’m I guarantee you the CIA has a whole case against the mob ready to get it. Ready to go.

Speaker: 01:17:44
Yeah. I think I’m with you guys. So the CIA, is there another mob? There’s a couple more. So we have there’s some Secret Service theories because again, a lot of the Secret Service were like confiscating documents from the next president. I wouldn’t, I would have a hard time trusting the secret service. Right. Well, so I think there’s also so there’s like theories like the Secret Service did it intentionally, and then there’s theories like with the Secret Service just incompetent, like that kind of thing. So there were over 10 witnesses who reported seeing a gunman in the window of the sixth floor, but no Secret Service. Like if all these people are like, Oh yeah, we saw this gunman before the assassination, but how did all these Secret Service agents whose whole job is to like let be alert didn’t see it? And then they talk about how when the shooting happened, like we said, why did he just sit there and get shot again? They’re saying, Why didn’t a Secret Service agent immediately immediately pounce on him? I would argue that that one chased down the car and that was speeding off at 80 miles per hour, so we should give them some credit for that. Right. But like they say they were but they backed off because JFK told him to back off.

Speaker 2: 01:18:40
Secret Service automatically changed with a change in presidents. Because I’m wondering if there was loyalty to like Eisenhower or like loyalty to like a Republican party.

Speaker 1: 01:18:52
No, you I don’t know. I’d like to believe that Secret Service really are like putting their life.

Speaker 2: 01:18:58
It was the 60s though. People had different perspectives on life back then. And once Liberal Catholic.

Speaker: 01:19:04
And now they were saying that the secret the Secret Service The Secret Service at this time under JFK was pretty overworked. So they were averaging about 83 trips a month and 80 overtime hours per pay period. Oh my goodness. When they were in Texas for this motorcade, they were doing double shifts. And they were tired. Yeah, but then also they were partying. So they had been out at the clubs till 5 a.m. They can do that before a 7 a.m. showtime. No. Well, you’re not supposed to. So the question was like, were they just like hung over and slow on their reflexes? No?

Speaker 2: 01:19:39
They did it on purpose. I think they did on purpose. I think they were a bit of it.

Speaker: 01:19:43
Well, here’s something else. Okay.

Speaker 1: 01:19:44
Yeah, I I also think it wasn’t like super obvious that that at first he got shot in the neck. Because really he’s just sitting there. Yeah, he kind of like looks around like I was just shot, and then the then he gets shot again.

Speaker: 01:19:56
Like, but I guess you wouldn’t say it was more than it was like a silencer on the Yeah, no, they’re saying you could hear the bullet. That’s why everyone’s arguing about your this single bullet theory, because they’re like, we could hear them. Connolly could hear them, right? Oh, okay. Connolly said he heard a bullet, a gunshot before he got shot.

Speaker 2: 01:20:11
Dang.

Speaker: 01:20:11
Okay, but here’s this here’s a kind of another Secret Service theory. Agent Hickey. There’s this photo. Agent Hickey in the back. This is Secret Service, and he’s got an AR-15. Uh-huh. Okay. Assault rifle. Apparently, there’s always there was always an AR-15 on deck. Yeah. Okay. So everyone’s out partying till 5 a.m. They have a 7 a.m. showtime. They’re overworked. They’re hungover. And they’re like, man, I can’t be trusted to be responsible for the AR-15. Okay. So Agent Hickey was this 40-year-old agent who had just started four months prior. He was usually a driver. He had not been out partying the night before. So they think they gave this novice like the role of like, okay, you be in charge of the AR-15. Because he’s in the back of the car there. Right? That’s not his usual role. Right. Multiple witnesses reported seeing Secret Service pull out a rifle. This includes the senator, the mayor, the governor. Secret Service initially said, What are you talking about? We don’t have a rifle. And then they came like, No, you’re right. We do always have a rifle. And the rifle is always like kind of locked and loaded. Okay. So multiple witnesses saw, they think like maybe they heard a shot. Like Pier would be the theory. Lee Harvey Oswald shoots him. That’s like the first gunshot we hear. And then they grab the AR-15 and shoot the president by axe. And axe. And then it um there’s video of him kind of like flying back. So I was thinking like kickback. Yeah. But but the other theory is like maybe he lost his balance, this gun went off, and that’s the one that’s what got him. So hiding it so then you would have to believe that that bullet came from the back, which we all agree is not the shot.

Speaker 2: 01:21:45
Yeah. There’s no way it’s a big thing. Yeah, I forgot about the the way the injury was, there’s no way it was a back shot. You’re right.

Speaker 1: 01:21:50
Um but yeah, that’s the one I think well, I think what happened is if he look if he looks like he was flying back, it to me it looked like he was kind of sitting up. It looks like the car behind him, so like the limo and then like the chase. So the chase like guns it so they can get to the president to like get the secret agent on the yeah, not secret agent, secret service man onto the so maybe like that, like the momentum of like the conversation. I think you’re right. Also, you would see it in the film. You would see that.

Speaker: 01:22:19
Yeah, but they’re arguing like are we really seeing everything, right? I mean, any this is again, this is just conspiracy theorists. Based on the inches, but you could you say shot him from behind. No, I think I think he got yeah, shot.

Speaker 1: 01:22:30
His head goes back and then he slumps over, yeah.

Speaker: 01:22:33
And the back of his head blows off. That doesn’t happen on an entry wound. No. So anyway, sounds like he could have been grabbing for it, fell back, it went off. That was like the theory. People have reached out to him looking like to get his story, and he’s not responded to anybody. I wouldn’t either legally. And then just because we’re talking about Secret Service and more kind of fishy stuff, Secret Service Bolden. So Bolden was the first black agent assigned to the White House. JFK had appointed him. And he tried to whistleblow on like the Secret Service response, and he was sent to jail for accepting a bribe, which many people believe was kind of a trumped-up charge. So they think that like he was trying to come out and be like Secret Service messed up, and then everyone was like, hush up, and they sent him to jail. Wow. They also he also wanted to, he was kind of whistleblowing on. I told you about that Chicago attempt on the 2nd of November that just didn’t happen because Kennedy canceled his trip that was set up very much like this, where they had a Patsy and they had the the high building and they were gonna shoot him as he came around a corner on the motorcade. And he’s like, this was never investigated. Like JFK just got lucky. He canceled this, but this should have been investigated. Maybe we could have prevented this. Secret Service didn’t like that. He goes to jail. What jail. So Secret Service was up to some some fishy things.

Speaker 1: 01:23:46
So that’s kind of the information about Secret Service report to? Like who are there, who are they under federally?

Speaker: 01:23:52
Oh, yeah. I feel like there’s some there was some sloppy work kind of, but I don’t see like a true motive there.

Speaker 2: 01:24:00
I think it was CIA still.

Speaker: 01:24:01
CIA mob. I’m giving it’s giving CIA and the mob. Yeah. Okay. We also have Johnson. His only motive would be the fact that apparently JFK had told people he was not going to keep Johnson as his second term. And we do know that when he took over for Kennedy, he pretty much had a complete 180. And so again, Lee Harvey Oswald, if you believe him, you could either believe that he was a crazy, you know, socialist who wanted to defect, or you could believe that he was an intelligence agent. Justice for Lee. Yeah. Yeah, I feel okay. Then we have the Cuban exiles. So Ricardo Monkey Morales. Monkey. Monkey. He was a contract CIA worker. He was an anti-Castro militant, an FBI informant, and a drug dealer. He did a lot of illegal activities and he got away with them because he would inform to the government. Okay. So he was a sniper instructor in secret Cuban exile camps. Because remember, they were training those Cuban exiles for the uh Bay of Pigs. Yeah. And he told his sons that two days prior to the assassination, his CIA handler sent him to Dallas for an unknown mission. He told his sons, quote, I didn’t do it, but I was in Dallas two days before waiting orders. We were the cleaning crew just in case something bad had to be done. Oh my gosh. Immediately after the assassination, he was sent back to Miami, never having had to do anything. He did know JFK was coming to Dallas, so he had kind of like he assumed he had some suspicions when they sent him there that maybe it had to do with JFK, but no one actually gave him like any orders or anything like that. He claimed that he had trained Lee Harvey Oswald in the training camp, but he did not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald could have done this because he was such a poor marksman. Oh. If you believe this theory, the motivation is that the exiles felt betrayed by Kennedy and his handling of Bay of Pigs. And so they were hoping that if they killed JFK and they kind of like framed Castro for it, that perhaps it would cause the United States to invade Cuba. So there’s that. I mean, this is kind of one man. Do you guys believe that? No. No. Remember, we can’t believe that there’s one man because there’s multiple gunshots. Yeah. No, but oh no, no, no, but I’m saying that like this is one man’s story. All we have all we have to support this theory is that some man who was about to die told his sons the story. Oh, but he was on his deathbed. They were actually at a shooting range when he told the story. Okay. But he was like, I feel like my time is coming to an end, and so I want to tell you guys the story. Oh, and then he died. And then he is now dead. It wasn’t like he died the next day, but yes, he eventually died.

Speaker 1: 01:26:22
Oh, I thought it would have been like a deathbed story. I would believe it more if on if it was on a deathbed. But then I feel like if he had just said it at a random shooting range. Yeah. Doesn’t the CIA have eyes everywhere?

Speaker: 01:26:35
I mean, yeah, we can’t trust them at all. Yeah. Okay, there’s also the theory that the Cuban Cuban government did it. If you believe this theory, then Castro was angered by CIA attempts to assassinate him and was countering with an attack on JFK. Oh, that’s fair. But you know what? Most of the places I could find as far as like sources for this was like the National Enquirer. There was an article in a CIA-funded anti-Castro newspaper, the Trinchera newspaper. People think it’s more likely that maybe he had kind of heard rumors and knew that something was going to happen to JFK and he didn’t warn him. Um, like that that’s more likely than that he actually planned and implemented this. Yeah. They did say that when he found out he was being interviewed for something when they told him JFK had been assassinated, so it’s on camera his response, and he said, This is bad news. Everything is going to change now. What I did see on the documentaries was that actually, like, even though there was so much tension and all this negotiating, like Khrushchev cried when he found out. Whoa. The guy from USSR? Mm-hmm. Okay, I got the last one, guys. Soviet Union. Allegedly, the Soviets recruited Lee Harvey Oswald when he was stationed in Japan. In 1961, this is like this is the rumor. He was assigned to assassinate JFK. Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to stay in the USSR, but he was given a wife and sent back to the US in June of 1962 to complete the mission. Soviet spies claim that between June of 62 and April of 63, the USSR actually changed their mind and they’re like, you know what, we don’t want to assassinate JFK. Right. But it was too late. There are letters back and forth to Discussing visas and return to the USSR. Like he’s like, my wife and kids need to be there first, and then maybe I’ll come later. What was that going to be after the assassination? What was going on? There’s another date of November 9th, which was two weeks after his trip to Mexico, where he talks about meeting KGB officers while in Mexico. So again, not a lot of information, but it would really tie everything up nicely because the USSR no longer exists. JFK is not here. Lee Harvey Oswald’s not here. So that would be like a nice, let’s just blame the USSR, and then everything’s tidy and right. That’s it. So that’s the other theory. So those are all the theories I found. We’re all still, do we all still stand firm on CIA.

Speaker 2: 01:28:39
My theory is that Lee Harvey Oswald. Yeah, which what a what a shame. I think he was organized through the CIA to shoot somebody. I don’t think it was to shoot the president. Because he looked genuinely shocked when he found out he was president.

Speaker: 01:28:56
I mean, I’m kind of believing him when he goes, I’m just a patsy, I’m just a patsy. I think that was the deal. I think that But he shot something. I think that he may have. Well, I don’t even know about that because the witnesses who saw JD Tippett get shot, some of them were like, What are you talking about? There were two gunmen. People couldn’t even identify him in the lineup.

Speaker 2: 01:29:13
That’s true.

Speaker: 01:29:14
He should he did shoot a gun, apparently, unless they faked the paraffin test. The results. You just can’t trust anything. No. So I would say I’m kind of now leaning to more towards Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent. May have actually been a U.S. asset. And he may have been incredibly screwed over by the CIA. They were setting him up to be the Patsy for this whole thing. 100%. And yeah, he did seem genuinely shocked that he was under arrest for killing the president.

Speaker 1: 01:29:44
Yeah. He looked like, oh my gosh, I just need to be quiet now. Because I this is way bigger than I thought. Yeah. Shut up. Yeah.

Speaker: 01:29:51
Oh, yeah. And I 100% could get behind. Now that I’m realizing the mob and the CIA had worked together in the past. They definitely could have done that. But it was two of them together. Yeah. And again, yeah, who else could cover all of this up?

Speaker 2: 01:30:04
The mob. Who do we think is the head mob? It’s just because there’s like Italian mob, Irish mob. I don’t know. Do you what do you mean?

Speaker: 01:30:12
Well, so then how do what do we think about Jack Ruby? Do we think Jack Ruby was really just like I love JFK and I killed him? I’m still kind of. I’m still gonna kind of use my Veronica Mars theory that they were like, who will sacrifice themselves? He doesn’t have very long to live. We’ll write him a big check. The last thing he did was send a money order to his employees, like send money to his employees. Oh. Like I didn’t think let’s off him. He’s dying anyway. Yeah. That’s where I stand. Guys, just a reminder: don’t forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages at Three Scheme Queens. That’s the number three scheme queens, all one word. We’re also on Reddit, same username. If you want to check out our website, go to three schemequeens.com and you can find links to our social media accounts, our BuzzSpour page, all of our episodes, additional content, and our contact page where you can engage with us and share any updates on the topics that we have discussed. Let us know how we’re doing and what you want to hear next. There are also opportunities to financially support us with links to buy us a cup of coffee and links to our merch store. As always, if you choose not to financially support us, we appreciate the follows, the downloads, the listens, the likes. Kate, what should the people do?

Speaker 1: 01:31:20
Yeah. Um, sure. If you uh loved this episode, take out your phone right now and text three people, Justice for Lee, with our link attached. And then scroll on down, leave us a five-star review, share us on your on your social media platforms, interact with us on our social media platforms, leave us a comment. Yeah, yeah. Sounds good. We will see you next Tuesday.

Speaker 2: 01:31:44
See ya next Tuesday.